Adenda - Interviu Roman Tolici

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catalog publicat cu ocazia expozi]ieiROMAN TOLICI. CEL MAI PROBABIL MÂINEcurator: Oana T`nase, 18 septembrie – 30 noiembrie 2008Muzeul Na]ional de Art` Contemporan` Bucure[ti /catalogue published with the occasion of the exhibition ROMAN TOLICI. IT COULD HAPPEN TOMORROW curator: Oana T`nase, September, 18 – Novembre, 30 2008 National Museum of Contemporary Art Bucharest

editor: Oana T`naselayout: Corina Duma

coperta / cover : Roman Tolicitraducere / translation : Samuel W. F. Onnimagini /images : Roman Tolici

septembrie / September 2008publicat de / published by : Muzeul Na]ional de Art` Contemporan`Bucure[ti, Palatul Parlamentului, Aripa E4, Str. Izvor 2-4

www.mnac.ro

sponsori / sponsors :Murfatlar, Anthon Berg, salt & pepper catering

parteneri media /media parteners :igloo, feeder.ro, rfi, arhitectura, 24fun, republik

C E L M

A I P R O B A B I L M

Â I N E

I T C O U L D H A P P E N

T O M O R R O W

A N

E X A

A D D E N D A



Oana T`nase : V`d în demersul “picturii (tale) dup`fotografie” un procedeu de rezolvare a unui colaj mental, cesolicit` artistului negocieri între ceea ce “r`mâne” – pentruc` se afl` deja acolo – [i ceea ce “cade” ori i se “adaug`” –pentru c` noua construc]ie o cere. Ipostaza în care se aflàtunci pictorul ar putea deveni – dac` nu gre[esc – similar`celei a unui “operator de imagine”, pentru a introduce deja în conversa]ia noastr` o pozi]ie din echipajul filmului…

Roman Tolici : Orice tip de demers are propriul sù istoric.În ce m` prive[te, fotografia e o experien]` anterioar`, una înregistrat` [i depozitat`. Ea devine un document precis, ac`rui înc`rc`tura con]ine experien]a mea personal`,“unghiul” meu exclusiv de vedere, participarea mea... bagajulmeu generos de gânduri.Este adev`rat c` port mai mereu camera foto cu mine, con-siderând-o un carnet de schi]e, un [evalet pentru plein-air, omuz` darnic` [i asta [i pentru c` trìesc cu convingerea c`totul – subiect, con]inut, form` – se afl` în imediataapropiere. Este adev`rat [i c`, de cele mai multe ori, ap`s pedeclan[ator f`r` a m` gândi c` respectiva fotografie s-arputea transforma într-o bun` zi în pictur`, iar tot de cele maimulte ori nici nu se întâmpl` asta. Atunci când parcurg zecide cli[ee pentru ca unul dintre ele s`-mi releveze poten]iali-tatea unei picturi, convingerea de mai sus cap`t` for]`. Astfel, însu[i subiectul vânat întâmpl`tor cap`t` o valoare

aproape mistic`, destìnuindu-mi un întreg univers, o întreag` filosofie, ambele într-atât de stabile, încât pare c`nu-mi mai r`mâne decât s` cizelez, s` ajustez, s` sintetizeztotul în procesul transpunerii pe pânz`.Desigur c` evit cu bun` [tiin]` aglutinarea unor elemente“strìne”, la fel cum, din ra]iuni tehnice, nici nu încerc s`suprapun imagini cacofonice (un copac fotografiat în zori arfi total strìn lâng` un personaj fotografiat seara). Elimin, înschimb, elemente care ar conduce la confuzii, eliminsurplusul senza]iei. Regândesc, asemenea unui “operator deimagine”, compozi]ia [i încadratura. Modific`rile, fie ele pur

vizuale ori de con]inut, vorbesc despre mine [i despreviziunea mea asupra lumii.

OT : “Traduce” oare pictura ceea ce fotografia livreaz` “larece”?

RT : Nu-i a[a c` ar fi absurd ca, avându-le pe ambele subochi, s` încerci s` conte[ti câ[tigul de cauz` al fotografieifa]` de pictur`, cel pu]in în privin]a fidelit`]ii? Pentru mine,efortul se justific` nu prin rezultatul “copierii” în pictur` aimaginii fotografiate, ci pentru c` încerc astfel s` în]eleg

imaginea în sine. Spre deosebire de al]ii, retroproiectoruleste exclus din atelier, eu “refac” imaginea doar prin contactvizual. Iar procedeul acesta implic` o construc]ie “de la zero”a fiec`rui obiect, procedeu ce m` conduce la o în]elegere [i

Oana T`nase : I see your “painting from photography” as a means for resolving a mental collage that requires the artist to negotiate between that which “remains” – since it is already there – and that which “is left out” or is added to it, as demanded by the new construction. The state in which the painter then finds himself, if I’m not mistaken,can be compared to that of a “director of photography”, if

you’ll allow me to introduce the idea of a position in a film crew into our discussion.

Roman Tolici : Every action has its own history. As far as I’m concerned, photography is an anterior experience, one that is recorded and stored. It becomes an accurate document, the contents of which consist of my personal experience, my exclusive “angle”, my participation… my

extensive stock of thoughts.It’s true I always carry my camera with me, which I treat as my sketch book, an easel for plein air painting, a gen-erous muse; and this is because I live with the conviction that everything – subject, content, form – is very close to hand. It’s also true that on most occasions I press the trigger without ever thinking that the photo in question might one day be transformed into painting, and, indeed,most times, that doesn’t even happen. When I’m looking through dozens of negatives to find one that reveals to me the potential of a painting, the conviction I mentioned

earlier comes into its own. Consequently, the subject itself,captured by chance, acquires an almost mystic value,revealing to me an entire universe, an entire philosophy that is so stable that it seems I need only to refine, to adjust, to synthesise everything in the process of transpos-ing to the canvas.Of course, I consciously avoid the agglutination of “foreign” elements, just as, for technical reasons, I don’t attempt to superimpose discordant images (a tree pho-tographed at dawn would be totally foreign beside a figure

photographed at night). On the other hand, I eliminate

elements that would create confusion, I eliminate the surplus of sensation. Like a “director of photography”, I rethink the composition and the framing. The modifica-tions I make, whether purely visual or content-based, say something about me and my view of the world.

OT : Does painting somehow “translate” that which photography renders objectively?

RT : Wouldn’t it be absurd, when you have both forms in front of you, to try and argue the advantages of photogra-

phy over painting, at least in terms of faithfulness? For me,the effort of doing what I do is justified not by the result of the “copying” to painting of photographed images, but rather because this is how I try to understand the image



con[tientizare a formei, la o medita]ie asupra con]inutului. Traduc astfel, într-adev`r, în propriul meu limbaj, ceea cemi-a livrat lumea prin fotografie, transformând-o în mesajiconic. Pictura, în cazul de fa]`, l`rge[te spa]iul de percep]iea unui obiect, dezv`luindu-l într-o lumin` nemaiv`zut`, de unmagnetism incontestabil. Nu m` mir` faptul c`, la mai binede o sut` de ani de la apari]ia fotografiei, pe pere]iitemplelor / ai locurilor de cult nu au ap`rut totu[i fotografii înloc de picturi. Cred cu t`rie c` pictura, în rând cu celelaltearte nesupuse imperativului reproductibilit`]ii, împ`rt`[e[teacela[i principiu ca [i crea]ia de tip divin, în accep]iuneamo[tenirii noastre culturale. O imagine pictat` completeaz`spa]ii lips` din percep]ia noastr` asupra lumii [i asupra nou` în[ine.

OT : Î]i propun s` arunc`m o privire retroactiv`, c`tre anii ’60,unde, potrivit lui Chuck Close, “a picta dup` fotografie”era comentat, în cheie etic`, drept lucrare a Antichristului, în timp ce, dac` lucrai dup` realitate erai mai aproape deDumnezeu: “Mi se întâmpla ca, în timpul vreunei conferin]e,lumea s` arunce cu sticle în mine”, î[i aminte[te Chuck Close.

RT : Simple prejudec`]i, prejudec`]i ce au func]ionat dealtfel în toate timpurile ca frâne, oarecum necesare, c`ci e multmai palpitant [i ofertant s` mergi contra curentului,

prejudec`]i pe care ast`zi nu le mai putem invoca…Indiferent de timp, îns`, ele anun]` un pericol: dac` nuvorbim de Dumnezeu, atunci vorbim de Diavol. Am speran]ac` ast`zi omenirea tinde s` scape de astfel de abord`ritran[ante. Tinde s` perceap` p`rerile contradictorii cadisput` filosofic` [i nu ca lupt` dintre bine [i rù.

OT : Nu întâmpl`torLupta dintre bine [i bine d` chiar titluluneia dintre seriile tale de desene, exemplar` pentru codifi-carea rela]iei dintre realitate [i construc]ie artificial`. Amputea citi aici – [i nu numai aici – un comentariu critic pe

marginea tuturor cli[eelor care ne îngr`desc percep]iaasupra lumii în general.

RT : Se întâmpl` adeseori s` am impresia c` realitatea în sineeste un cli[eu vizual. Ne g`sim tot mai des prad` a uneiimagini urm`rite filmic, în timp real, ce con]ine un simplur`s`rit de soare deasupra m`rii [i un cuplu de îndr`gosti]i cetrece întâmpl`tor prin fa]a noastr`: pur cli[eu vizual, la urmaurmelor, parte a unei realit`]i cu care suntem într-atât defamiliari încât ne devine banal`. Poate c` ne-am pierdut dejaantrenamentul de a analiza individual fiecare element, de a

ob]ine în final o ecua]ie complex` de coduri vizuale, ce ne-arputea dezv`lui un univers mult mai înc`rcat de sensuri,mister [i, de ce nu, frumuse]e. Cred c` rela]ia noastr` culumea se îmbog`]e[te numai atunci când o privim cu aten]ie.

itself. Unlike for others, the overhead projector is forbid-den in my studio, I “remake” the image only by means of visual contact. And this procedure implies the construction of each object “from scratch”, a procedure that leads me to understand and be aware of form, to meditate on the content. This allows me to translate into my own language that which the world has brought to me through photog-raphy, transforming it into an iconic message.Painting, in the case in point, augments the space of per-ception for an object, showing it in a never-before-seen light of an incontestable magnetism. It doesn’t surprise me that, more than a hundred years since the advent of

photography, on the walls of temples and religious sites we still don’t see photographs instead of paintings.I strongly believe that paining, alongside the other art

forms not subject to the imperative of reproduction,abides by the same principle as divine creation as understood by our cultural inheritance. A painted image fills in the blanks in our perception about the world and about ourselves.

OT : I’d like you to cast your mind back to the 1960s when, according to Chuck Close, “painting from photogra-

phy” was labelled from an ethical perspective as the work of the Antichrist, while if you worked from reality you were closer to God: “It happened to me at conferences that

people would throw bottles at me,” Chuck Close said.

RT : Simple prejudices, prejudices that in fact in all periods have acted as brakes, albeit somewhat necessary brakes,since it’s much more exciting and full of possibilities to go against the stream; prejudices we can no longer invoke today… irrespective of time, however, they forewarn us of a danger: if we’re not talking about God then we’re talking bout the Devil. I hope that humankind today is moving to rid itself of this kind of clear-cut approach. It’s starting to see contradictory opinion in terms of a philosophical

dispute and not as battle between good and evil.

OT : It’s no accident that The Battle between Good andGoodactually lends its name to some of your series of drawings, which are examples of the codification of the relationship between reality and artificial construction.We might read this – though not only in this case – as a critique of all clichés that limit our perception of the world in general.

RT : Often I have the impression that reality itself is a visu-

al cliché. We are increasingly falling prey to an image viewed filmically, in real time, containing a simple sunrise over the sea and some lovers passing casually before our eyes – pure visual cliché, after all, a part of a reality we’re



Scopul picturii mele este [i acela de a-l face pe privitor s`z`boveasc` ceva mai mult asupra unei astfel de imagini:no]iuni dintre cele mai diverse ne sunt furnizate prinintermediul unor coduri vizuale care nu oblig` ci, maidegrab`, incit`; dac` sunt construc]ii, atunci ele ofer` nu atâtr`spunsuri, cât întreb`ri. Este, pân` la urm`, încercareade a identifica bucurii subtile, neb`nuite, ce încarc` de sens îns`[i existen]a noastr`, asupra c`reia avem oricum atât demulte îndoieli.

OT : În continuarea ideii tale, unii ar putea identifica, de la oserie la alta a lucr`rilor tale, “particip`ri” private ori colective,tot la fel cum, de la o serie la alta, momente [i personajereale, ale vie]ii personale, las` locul unei imagerii împrumu-tate din exterior.

RT : Beneficiem ast`zi de un bagaj de (re)surse imagisticef`r` precedent; [i doar dac` lu`m în considerare internetul,acesta constituie o bibliotec` uria[`, pe lâng` care legen-darele biblioteci din vechime pot p`rea simple biblioteci de]ar`. Suntem martorii unei mega-explozii mediatice, imagineaavând, în detrimentul informa]iei textuale, rol major. Poate deaceea am [i ajuns oarecum obi[nui]i cu starea de mirare,mirare instrumentat` ca arm` irezistibil` de control amaselor. Singura op]iune ne r`mâne trierea. A[a [i cu surse-le picturii figurative: ne par nem`rginite, iar selec]ia intervine

potrivit for]ei lor de fascina]ie. Nu urm`resc nicidecum unistoric personal, de[i în lucr`rile mele poate fi detectat` oasemenea direc]ie, ci un istoric colectiv, a c`rui substan]` încerc s` o în]eleg [i s` o dezv`lui [i celorlal]i. Dac` m`pomenesc fascinat în fa]a unei imagini, este pentru c` o trecprintr-un filtru personal, descoperindu-i calit`]i ascunseprivirii fugitive ori ignorante. Aceasta este fascina]ia pe caredoresc s-o transmit poten]ialului spectator al artei mele.

OT : Cum s-ar explica atunci distan]a emo]ional` fa]` desubiectul ales spre reprezentare? Întreb acest lucru pentru

so familiar with that it becomes commonplace. Maybe we’ve already lost our ability to analyse each element individually, to arrive as a result at a complex equation of visual codes that might reveal to us a universe far more laden with meaning, mystery and (why not also?) beauty.I believe that our relationship with the world becomes richer only when we inspect it carefully. The aim of my

painting is to cause the viewer to dwell a little longer on this kind of image: the most diverse ideas are brought to us by means of visual codes that do not oblige but rather incite; if they are constructions then they don’t just

provide answers but also questions. At the end of the day,this is an attempt to identify subtle, unexpected pleasures that give meaning to our existence itself – something about which we anyway have so many doubts.

OT : Continuing with this idea, from one series of your works to another, some might identify private or collective “participations” – just as, from one series to the next, real moments and people from private life leave room for imagery borrowed from without.

RT : We have at our disposal today an unprecedented amount of (re)sources of images; just taking the internet,this represents a giant library in comparison with which the legendary libraries of Ancient times might seem like

basic country libraries. We are witnesses of a massive explosion in media in which images, to the detriment of textural information, are playing a major role. Maybe this is why we’ve somehow become accustomed to a state of amazement, amazement utilised like an irresistible weapon for controlling the masses. The only choice left to us is selection. It’s the same with sources of figurative

painting: they seem unlimited to us, and selection matches their power of fascination. I’m not in any way following a personal history (albeit this direction can be detected in my works), but rather a collective history, one

whose substance I am trying to understand and reveal to the others. If I find myself fascinated by an image it is because I’m passing it through a personal filter, revealing qualities hidden to an ignorant or fleeting gaze. It is this fascination I wish to transmit to the potential spectator of my art.

OT : How, then, can the emotional distance to the subject chosen for representation be explained? I ask this because I detect an apparent emotional detachment that somehow shields the image from any attempt at a strictly

personal reading.

RT : I am only a transmitter of forms. Based on a narcissis-tic impulse, we are all tempted to formulate questions and



c` detectez o aparent` r`ceal` afectiv` ce pune cumva laad`post imaginea de orice încercare de citire în cheie strictpersonal`.

RT : Sunt doar un vehiculator al formelor. Sub semnul unuiimpuls narcisiac, to]i suntem tenta]i s` formul`m întreb`ri [is` afl`m r`spunsuri doar problemelor ce ne vizeaz` în primulrând în mod direct, pentru ca abia apoi s` le extindem ariaspre a le generaliza. Pe scurt, ne intereseaz`, de exemplu,problema vie]ii [i a mor]ii din perspectiva uman` într-om`sur` net superioar` fa]` de acelea[i probleme dinperspectiva unei mu[te. Totul este, pân` la urm`, doarpropunerea unui adev`r valabil pentru tine c`tre ceilal]i, iaraceast` propunere nu o po]i anun]a decât dac` te distan]eziemo]ional de subiectul lui portant.Nu exclud, cu toate acestea, o amprent` nostalgic`, pe care[i tu o indicai într-una din conversa]iile noastre anterioarereferitoare la rela]ia dintre fotografie [i pictur`. Este îns` doarsemnul unui mod contemplativ de a privi lumea [i mai pu]indovada unei transcrieri a fotografiei – ca receptacol almemoriei – în pictur`. Fotografia îns`[i este un produsnostalgic, pe m`sur` ce timpul recept`rii ei se distan]eaz` decel al produc]iei, iar contempla]ia este întrucâtvaconstituent` demersului oric`rui plastician.Pentru a relua [i nuan]a rela]ia complicitar` pe care picturamea o între]ine cu fotografia surs`, ar fi interesant chiar

exemplul serieiPark (2007). Am fost adeseori întrebat cumanume s-a construit leg`tura dintre peisaj [i na]iune –termeni cheie ai acestei serii de picturi. Ei bine, înPark amavut parte de ceea ce numim adesea revela]ie. Codul rela]ieidintre un peisaj “construit” [i o na]iune “dat`” l-amdescoperit, a[a cum se descoper` toate lucrurile, întâmpl`tor. Scena a fost surprins` exact într-o zi de 4 iulie,privind de pe fereastra locuin]ei mele de la etajul 5: oameni jucând tenis de mas`, vorbind [i bând bere. Nimic neobi[nuitla prima vedere, ci doar un impuls de a s`rb`tori ziuana]ional` a unei ]`ri care nu este a ta dar la care visezi,

de a-]i apropria într-un fel principiile unei libert`]i, cu tot cudrapelul ei. Pe scurt, aveam în fa]a ochilor o imagine în caretot ce nu e american poate deveni american, o scen` banal`ce se transform` în oglinda unui eveniment. Au urmat, în seriaPark [i Fran]a, [i China, [i Olanda… c`ciodat` descoperit` aceast` posibilitate, am început s` privesccu al]i ochi alte scene [i peisaje ce-mi r`s`reau în cale orichiar fotografii din urm`. Interesul meu a privit nu atât“portretizarea” unei ]`ri, cât percep]ia noastr` auspra ei…conforma]ii peisagistice, atitudini umane, st`ri atmosferice.

OT : S` în]eleg c P̀ark -ul con]ine [i o privire ironic` adresat`larghe]ei cu care-i etichet`m pe ceilal]i?

RT : Nu este doar un demers critic: dealtfel, însu[i titlul –

to seek answers only to problems that affect us directly first and foremost, and only later do we expand their scope and generalise them. In a nutshell, we are, for example, interested in the problem of life and death from a human perspective to a far greater extent than the same

problems seen from the perspective of a fly. In the end, it all comes down to proposing to others a truth that is valid for you, and this proposal can not be made unless you distance yourself emotionally from its bearer subject.Having said all this, I don’t exclude a nostalgic element,something you also point out in one of our conversations on the relationship between photography and painting.It is, however, only the sign of a contemplative way of viewing the world and less so the proof of the transcrip-tion of photography – as a receptacle of memory – into

painting. Photography itself is a nostalgic product, all the more so the more the moment of its reception distances itself from that of its production, and to an extent contem-

plation is somehow a component part of the endeavours of any plastic artist.In order also to reiterate and nuance the complicitous relationship my painting maintains with the source pho-tography, we can take the example of the Park series (2007). I’ve often been asked how exactly the connection between landscape and nation – key terms in this series of paintings – was constructed. Well, in Park , I had what

we often call a revelation. I discovered the code behind the relationship between a “built” landscape and “given” nation just like all things get discovered – by chance.The scene was captured on 4th July, by looking from the window of my home on the fifth floor: people were

playing table tennis, talking and drinking beer. Nothing unusual at first sight, only an impulse to celebrate the national day of a country that is not your own but which

you dream of, to come closer somehow to the principles of freedom, including its flag. In brief, before my eyes was an image in which all that was not American could

become American, an everyday scene transformed





Doar pentru Olanda am invocat în construc]ia imaginii unreper cultural: perspectiva asupra patinatorilor prin[i ca într-un vals n-ar fi Olanda f`r` a-l “cita” pe Brueghel.

OT : Imaginea ]`rilor despre care vorbe[ti se construie[te caun puzzle, un cumul de înregistr`ri ale unor momentedisparate din punct de vedere istoric (laolalt` cu felul în careele au fost transbordate interpretativ în lumea contempo-ran`) ce modeleaz` percep]ia noastr`, iar spa]iul tuturoripotezelor cap`t` brusc coeren]`. Unii s-ar putea întrebacum plasezi ziua de 9 mai în seriaPark ?

RT : V`d în Uniunea European` un parc al tuturor vârstelor,un teren de joac` [i odihn`, o experien]` înc`rcat` desperan]a unei familii unite [i sigure, un balans optimist alfor]ei diferen]elor care creeaz` echilibru [i progres.

OT : Cum s-a produs atunci deplasarea de la “portretulcumulativ”, al unei na]iuni, c`tre “portretul f`r` masc`”, dinrecenta serieBarber’s Shop , unde, de-a lungul a 40 dedesene, decapezi cu bun` [tiin]` personaje care au “mutat”istoria din loc, fie ea politic` ori cultural`? Spune-mi, te rog,cum s-a n`scut ideea? Este oare vorba de o r`fuial` cu“eroii” ori o simpl` încercare de a te împrieteni cu ei, prin ale da chip în ciuda faptului c` date fizionomice lipsesc într-obun` m`sur`? Ar fi prea for]at a spune c`-i supui unui pro-

ces de castrare în termeni vizuali, pentru a le detrona celpu]in autoritatea mediatic`?

RT : Barber’s Shop s-a n`scut din întrebarea “ce-i face peoamenii remarcabili s` fie memorabili?”. Prima imagine carem-a determinat s`-mi pun cu adev`rat aceast` întrebare afost Adolf Hitler, a c`rui musta]` inconfundabil` func]ioneaz`ca un stigmat în memoria colectiv`. În astfel de cazuri, barbaori musta]a ascunde nu doar tr`s`turi majore ale fizionomieici au chiar rolul unei m`[ti: m` întreb, ca mul]i al]ii, cum

Bin Laden s-ar putea plimba

nestingherit pe str`zile oric`reimetropole f`r` a atrage aten]ia,dac` ar fi ras.De-a lungul istoriei, barba [imusta]a au avut atât conota]iipozitive, cât [i negative: greciivenerau barba ca pe un semn alb`rb`]iei, romanii o blamau ca peun semn al barbariei, cre[tinii [imusulmanii au reabilitat-o ca pe unsemn al înc`rc`turii spirituale.

A[adar, ambele constituie însemnesimbolice cu statut magic, pe care o persoan` decide s` lepoarte, con[tient` fiind sau nu de for]a acestui statut.Barber’s Shop este un “top 40” realizat de mine

space, it contains an agglomeration of multitudes: the children’s park, blocks of flats with many windows, then many leaves, many grains of sand… Spain, as a part of Park, becomes a space of sanguine confrontations where the battle with windmills takes on the appearance of a dizzying and seductive dance. France is the only case where I used an actual photograph “from France” as an springboard-image: the steps lead to the Palace of Versailles, which has been eliminated to indicate the decapitation of the monarchy. In Germany, nature is subordinated to a sense of discipline, and the horses invite interpretation on the theory of racial superiority. Vastness is the key term in our perception of Russia: the

perspective implies the ambition for “cosmic” supremacy,the opening to the sea refers to the “window to Europe”

promoted by Peter the Great and which continues today.It is only with Holland that in constructing the image I make recourse to a cultural reference: the view of the skaters captured as if in a waltz would not be Holland without “quoting” Brueghel.

OT : The image of the countries you speak of is construct-ed like a jigsaw puzzle – an accumulation of recordings of historically different moments, together with the way their interpretation has been transported to the contemporary world), which shape our perception – while the space of

all the hypotheses suddenly acquires coherence. Some might wonder how you place 9th May in the Park series.

RT : In the European Union I see a park for all ages, an area of play and relaxation, an experience full of the hope of a united and secure family, an optimistic balance of the forces of different characteristics which create equilibrium and progress.

OT : What engendered the shift from the “cumulative portrait” of a nation towards the “unmasked portrait” of

the Barber’s Shop , where, throughout the 40 drawings, you intentionally “scrub” the people who have “displaced” history, be that politically or culturally? Please tell me how this idea was born? Is it perhaps a matter of a settling of accounts with “heroes” or merely an attempt to make friends with them by revealing their faces, despite the fact that the physiognomic data required are largely unavail-able? Would it be too far-fetched to say you subject them to a process of visual castration in order to undermine their authority, at least their media-generated authority?

RT : Barber’s Shopgrew out of the question “What makes remarkable people memorable?” The first image that really made me ask this question was that of Adolf Hitler,whose unmistakeable moustache acts like a stigma in



(asumându-mi subiectivitatea alegerii [i f`r` a pretinde oordine interioar`), al celor mai puternice personalit`]i care auinfluen]at modernitatea: nu cred în pura întâmplare a op]iuniiacestor figuri pentru a purta barb`, cred c` to]i aucon[tientizat pe parcursul vie]ii surplusul de for]` dat depodoaba facial` întregului demers prin care s-au f`cutremarca]i. Portretele sunt desenate ca busturi monumentale,singurul indiciu fiind prenumele personajului: ce-i une[te peto]i este func]ia unui tipar în memoria colectiv`, este influen]alor modificatoare asupra umanit`]ii. În procesul de lucruasupra seriei am trìt o curiozitate real` de a le descoperi –din postura de “b`rbier” – “adev`rata fa]`”.Prin documentare, am descoperit fotografii din tinere]ea“spân`” a unor personalit`]i, imagini care m-au ajutat s`reconstitui tr`s`turile fe]ei, c`rora le-am adùgat apoi “ani”.De multe ori porneam de la o informa]ie minim`: desenulgurii. Parte dintre personaje au r`mas recognoscibile chiar [idup` eliminarea b`rbii, prin urmare seria acestor deseneurm`re[te deopotriv` o demascare [i reversul ei, iar unuldintre rezultate este chiar revelarea laturii umane, c`cidincolo de mit cei 40 au fost oameni ca noi.

OT : Relu`m un fir al discu]iei anun]at înc` de la \nceputulconversa]iei noastre [i anume structura cinematic` a unoradintre picturile tale. Practic, Action – titlu al seriei in progressinvitat` în expozi]ia de la MNAC – este un termen împrumu-

tat chiar din lumea filmului…

RT : A[ putea spune c` seria are r`d`cini adânci, dat fiindfaptul c` tat`l meu a fost proiec]ionist de cinema: magiafilmului mi s-a dezv`luit la o vârst` foarte fraged`, când amdescoperit rolele de pelicul`. Eram fascinat pentru c` în]elegeam nu doar c` imaginile care se mi[cau erau de faptstatice, ci [i c` între ele p`rea s` nu fie nicio diferen]`! Înacel moment aveam impresia c` [tiu un secret! Ceva maitârziu, când pentru admiterea la liceul de art` am avutposibilitatea s` aleg între pictur` [i anima]ie, am ales f`r`

re]inere anima]ia. În timp, am realizat c` dincolo decaracterul aparent facil al rezultatului se ascunde un studiuaprofundat. Nu [tiu s` fi sim]it vreodat` o bucurie mai maredecât atunci când mi-am v`zut pentru prima oar` deseneleprinzând via]`! Am abandonat anima]ia, dar “lec]ia” ei s-areflectat în tot demersul meu ulterior.Seria Action atac` imaginea static` drept secven]` a uneiac]iuni, urm`rindu-i instabilitatea [i suple]ea. Nu este atât ocercetare a mi[c`rii în sine cât a ac]iunii [i a consecin]elor ei.Clipa disecat` ne poate dezv`lui o poveste con]in`toare deadev`ruri simple [i totodat` complexe. Este a[adar vorba de

o abordare cinematografic` a picturii.

OT : Spectatorul câ[tig` impresia unei picturi construite dincadre, cadre ale unui film ce înregistreaz` via]a: momente

collective memory. In cases like this, a beard or mous-tache doesn’t only hide major facial features; they even fulfil the role of a mask: like many others, I wonder how Bin Laden would be able to walk around freely on the streets of any city without attracting attention if he were shaven.Throughout history, beards and moustaches have enjoyed both positive and negative connotations: the Greeks venerated beards as a sign of manhood; the Romans saw them as a sign of barbarianism; Christians and Muslims rehabilitated them as signs of spiritual wealth. Thus, both constitute symbolic insignia with a magical status that a person chooses to wear, whether

conscious or not of the power of that status.Barber’s Shopis a “Top 40” created by me (assuming the subjectivity of my selection and without pretensions to an interi-or ranking) of the most impor-tant people to have influenced modernity: I don’t believe it was by pure chance that these fig-ures chose to wear beards; I

believe they all became conscious during their lives of the additional strength their facial decoration gave them in the endeavours through which they became famous. The portraits are made like monumental busts, the only clue being the first name of the person: what unites them all is the role of patterns in collective memory, their influence on humanity. While working on the series I felt a real curiosity to discover –from my position as “barber” – “their true faces”. When conducting research I discovered photographs from the beardless youths of different people, images which helped

me reconstruct the features of the faces to which I then added some years of age. Many times I would begin with only a basic piece of information: the mouth. Some of the

people remained recognisable even after eliminating their beards, and consequently this series of drawings aims both at de-masking and its reverse, and one of its results is showing their human side, for, beyond the myth, these 40 people were just like you and me.

OT : Coming back to a strand of conversation already mentioned yesterday, that is the cinematographic struc-

ture of some of your paintings… Basically, Action– the title of the “work in progress” exhibition at the MNAC –is a term borrowed directly from the world of film….



singulare, memorate poate u[or alterat [i de aceea încontinu` transformare, sunt surprinse în flux.

RT : Îmi place exemplul s`ge]ii care în timpul traiectoriei ei dela a la b parcurge un infinit de puncte intermediare determi-nate, deci statice: ochiul func]ioneaz` ca o camer` de filmatiar, dac` ar avea posibilitatea de a parcurge cu suficient`vitez` imaginile pictate succesiv, ar vedea la propriu opictur` în ac]iune, un continuu “film mut”, care nu ia sfâr[itnici atunci când cade curentul. De aici [i titlul acestei serii –

Action , un semnal al regizorului. Fiecare lucrare în parte s-arfi putut numi Action 1, 2, 3 … fiind atât poveste cine-matografic` independent`, cât [i parte a unui puzzle carecon]ine în esen]` o poveste complex` de tipul filmului de

lung metraj.OT : O mic` observa]ie ar fi poate util` aici: intuiesc îninteriorul acestei serii înc` în lucru dou` direc]ii distinctepotrivit unghiului regizoral ales…

RT : Deocamdat` excep]ie face lucrareaUn foc , undeperspectiva se modific` tocmai datorit` travellingului: este ositua]ie-limit`, c`ci evenimentul este ireversibil. Restulpieselor abordeaz` unghiul privitorului static, care urm`re[teac]iunea, alte deplas`ri nefiind justificate decât în cheieestetic`, ceea ce ar fi condus la artificii deconcertante.În orice caz, aceste lucr`ri iau în vizor timpul: Action seopre[te asupra unor secven]e de timp foarte scurte, lanivelul secundelor, sec]ionate în capete de mi[care pe care

RT : Let’s say this series has deep roots, given the fact that my father was a cinema projectionist: the magic of film was revealed to me at a very tender age, when I first came across roles of film. I was fascinated because I understood not only that the moving images were in fact static, but also because there didn’t seem to be any difference between them! At that moment I felt I had uncovered a secret! Somewhat later, when applying to the school of art, I had the chance to choose between

painting and animation, and without reservation I chose animation. In time I realised that, behind the apparent simplicity of the result, there exists an elaborate study.I don’t remember any other experience of joy as great as when I watched my drawings come to life for the first time! I since gave up animation, but its “teaching” could

be felt in all my later work.The Actionseries treats the static image like the sequence of an action, tracing its instability and flexibility. It is less a study of movement in itself and more one of an action and its consequences. The dissected moment can reveal to us a continuing story of simple but simultaneously complex truths. This makes it a cinematographic approach to painting.

OT : The viewer gains the impression of a painting built from frames, the frames of a film that records life: unique

moments – memorised, possibly slightly altered and thus in continual transformation – are captured in a state of flux.

RT : I like the example of the arrow which during its trajectory from A to B passes through an infinite number of intermediary, determined, that is, static, points: the eye functions as a film camera, and if it has the possibility to

pass through the successively painted images with sufficient speed, it will actually see a picture in motion, a

perpetual silent film that does not even end when the

power goes off. This also gave the series its name, Action ,a signal made by the director. Every individual work could be called Action 1, 2, 3… being both an independent cinematographic story and part of a jigsaw puzzle that in its essence contains a complex feature film-type story.

OT : A small observation springs to mind: I sense in this series still in progress two different approaches, each one tailored to the chosen directorial angle…

RT : For the time being the exception is the work A Fire ,

where the perspective changes precisely because of the dolly: It is a crucial situation, since the event is irreversible.The rest of the pieces address the perspective of the static viewer, who is following the action, while other



le-am considerat esen]iale pentru în]elegerea pove[tii.Lucr`rile iau titlul obiectului considerat sau al ac]iunii, tocmai

pentru a induce unicitatea momentului în divizare.Uite:Un sunet reprezint` hotarul dintre lini[te [i zgomot,o tain` ascuns` în asfin]itul aduc`tor de noapte, o avertizarea pericolului ce pânde[te în peisaj...Un peron prive[te simpla plecare a unui tren din gar`(trimitere c`tre unul dintre primele subiecte filmate de fra]iiLumiere - sosirea trenului în gar` La Ciotat); momentul esteunul extrem de înc`rcat emo]ional, prinse fiind aici bucuriile[i triste]ile ce implic` aceast` ac]iune… Iar c`l`toria, sensulei [i, implicit, intersec]ia drumurilor ia chipuri diferite înUn drum, Un fum, O iarn` : relocarea pare c` nu las` loc

momentelor intermediare s` fie consumate, timpul secomprim`, scopul se dilat` devenind evanescent, r`t`cireaintervine [i ea… toate acestea construiesc un requiem alsufletului uman.

movements, which would lead to disconcerting effects,are not justified beyond the aesthetic scheme. In any case,these works are focussed on time: Actiondeals with very short sequence of time, in the order of seconds, split into

periods of motion I considered essential to understanding the story. The works take their name from the object or the action in question precisely in order to induce the uniqueness of the moment undergoing division.For instance, A Soundrepresents the border between silence and noise, a secret hidden in the setting sun,the bringer of night, a warning of danger lurking in the landscape… A Platformis about the simple departure of a train from the station (a nod to one of the first subjects filmed by the Lumier brothers, the arrival of the train in the La Ciotat

station); the moment is heavily emotionally charged, cap-turing the joys and sadness associated with this action…

And the journey, its meaning and the intersection of paths take on different appearances in A Journey, A Smoke, A Winter: the relocation does not seem to leave room for the intermediary moments, time is compressed, the

purpose dilates and becomes evanescent, wandering makes an appearance too… all this combines to build a requiem for the human soul.

Documents

Adenda - Interviu Roman Tolici