Apostasy in Islam (Quran vs Hadith)

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02-01-2010, 03:11 PM

Apostasy in Islam (quran vs hadith)

Salam Aliakum wa-rahmat allahu wa baraktu.

I need help in this subject inshalla someone can give me explanation for this.

Basically this is a debate that is going on YouTube and is causing many

conflicts between muslims.

Is the punishment for apostasy execution?

The confusion comes here where the ahdeeth conflicts with the quran.

Apostasy has been mension at least 20 times in the quran non of the verses

mension that the punishment for it is execution, but ahdeeth do.

HADITHS:

Bukhari (52:260) - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his

religion, kill him.' "

Bukhari (83:37) - "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the

following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was

killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual

intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle anddeserted Islam and became an apostate."

Bukhari (84:57) - "[In the words of] Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his

Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Bukhari (89:271) - A man who embraces Islam, then reverts to Judaism is to

be killed according to "the verdict of Allah and his apostle."

Bukhari (84:58) - "There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh

asked, 'Who is this (man)?' Abu Muisa said, 'He was a Jew and became a

Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.' Then Abu Muisa requested

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Al-Rahman Institute - Knowledge, Mercy, Inspiration.

Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, 'I will not sit down till he has been killed.

This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it

thrice.' Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed.

Abu Musa added, 'Then we discussed the night prayers'"

Bukhari (84:64-65) - "Allah's Apostle: 'During the last days there will appear

some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not

go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from

(leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find

them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of

Resurrection.'"

QURAN:[And say [O Muhammad]: 'The truth [has now come] you're your Sustainer:

let, then, him or her who wills, believe in it, and let him or her who wills, reject

it.] (Al-Kahf 18:29)

[There shall be no coercion in matters of faith.] (Al-Baqarah 2:256)

[And so, [O Prophet,] exhort them; your task is only to exhort. You can not

compel them [to believe].] (Al-Ghashiyah 88:21-22)

[Thus, [O Prophet,] if they argue with you, say, "I have surrendered my wholebeing unto God, and [so have] all who follow me' – and ask those who have

been vouchsafed revelation aforetime, as well as the unlettered people, 'Have

you [too] surrendered yourselves unto Him?' And if they surrender

themselves unto Him, they are on the right path; but if they turn away –

behold, your duty is no more than to deliver the message: for God sees all

that is in [the hearts of] His creatures.] (Aal `Imran 3:20)

[Behold, as for those who come to believe, and then deny the truth, and again

come to believe, and again deny the truth, and thereafter grow stubborn in

their denial of truth — God will not forgive them, nor will guide them in any

way.] (An-Nisaa' 4:137)

Verily, We sent down to you [O Muhammad] the Book [Qur'an] for mankind intruth. So, whosoever goes astray, he goes astray to his own loss. And you [O

Muhammad] are not a guardian over them. (Az-Zumar 39:41)

Can anyone bring me a tafsir or quran verse that proves those ahdeeth

because as well know we follow the quran before the hadith.

w.salam

02-01-2010, 04:04 PM

Re: Apostasy in Islam (quran vs hadith)

#2

ibn Mikael

Senior Member

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I don't know. I remember hearing how the Ottoman scholars in like

the 16th century or so concluded that the hadiths in question are in

actuality referring to those Muslims who abandon their religion and

join forces against the Muslims; even though this goes against

classical interpretations (apostasy has historically been considered

punishable by death), I feel that following the opinion of these

Ottoman scholars is perfectly acceptable. They were some of the

most intelligent scholars of their time, and if they interpreted this

matter in such a way, there's no reason I cannot. And it wasn't as if it was some minority opinion--it gained enough ground to be made

into law.

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02-01-2010, 04:07 PM


fair enough but akhi how can you kill when the quran does not alow

you or premit you to kill?!?!?

only ahdeeth do?!

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Allah revealed to one of the Prophets, “Whoever meets Me while he lovesMe, I will make him enter My Paradise. Whoever meets Me while he fearsMe, I will spare him My Hell. And whoever meets Me and is ashamed

because of his sins, I will make the angels who record deeds forget hissins.”

02-01-2010, 04:15 PM


i think these Ayaats are about the non believers(who don't embrace

Islam) not about the apsotates.

ahaadith never conflict with the quran.because ALLAH almighty says

1-??? ???? ?? ????? ?? ?? ??? ??? ????2-??? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ???? ??? ???????

3-?? ?? ???? ????? ???? ???????? ?????? ????

and many other examples.

so following Rasullallah is to follow Holy Quran.

i advice u to contact a reputed mufti or Aalim.u may try this

question at

http://www.shariahboard.org/

http://alittehad.org/

http://www.askimam.org/

#4

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http://majlisraipuri.blogspot.com/

02-01-2010, 04:18 PM


First of all. Please bring SOLID REFERENCES that these Ottoman

scholars held such an opinion.

So please mention the names WITH their books and FULL context!

No secondary sources or hearsay!

#5

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Ansari

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Originally Posted by ibn Mikael

I don't know. I remember hearing how the Ottoman scholars in like the 16th century or so concluded that the hadiths in question are in actuality referring to those Muslims who abandon their religion and join forces against the Muslims; even though this goes against classical interpretations (apostasy has historically been considered punishable by death), I feel that following the opinion of these Ottoman scholars is perfectly acceptable. They were some of the most intelligent scholars of their time, and if they interpreted this matter in such a way,there's no reason I cannot. And it wasn't as if it was some

minority opinion--it gained enough ground to be made into law.

And if he were to ask for a gentle lady in marriage, he would be refused, and when he leaves the

world it does not miss him, and if he goes out, his going out is not noticed, and if he falls sick, he is

not attended to, and if he dies, he is not accompanied to his grave.

02-01-2010, 04:23 PM


i think these Ayaats are about the non believers(who don't embrace

Islam) not about the apsotates.

ahaadith never conflict with the quran.because ALLAH almighty says

1-??? ???? ?? ????? ?? ?? ??? ??? ????

2-??? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ???? ??? ???????

3-?? ?? ???? ????? ???? ???????? ?????? ????

and many other examples.

so following Rasullallah is to follow Holy Quran.

i advice u to contact a reputed mufti or Aalim.u may try this

question at

http://www.shariahboard.org/

http://alittehad.org/

http://www.askimam.org/

#6

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02-01-2010, 04:29 PM


there are so many things which are clearly not mentioned in Quran

and ahaadith clearify them.

WORDS OF RASULLAH ARE WORDS OF ALLAH.

sis!this thinking is very dangerous which leads to MUNKAREEN-E-

HADITH.

may ALLAH protects ur and our belief.

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how can you kill when the quran does not alow you or premit you to kill?!?!?

only ahdeeth do?!


02-01-2010, 04:34 PM


akhi i'm not a munkira believe me in this.

I asked for evidence from the quran because i could not find any

quranic verses.And it got me confused to why the prophet would say this hadith,

but i don't call any authentic hadith a lie akhi the ayah you just

qouted can you please transalte it?

jzkallah

#8

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Originally Posted by Majlis Raipuri

there are so many things which are clearly not mentioned in Quran and ahaadith clearify them.WORDS OF RASULLAH ARE WORDS OF ALLAH.sis!this thinking is very dangerous which leads to MUNKAREEN- E-HADITH.may ALLAH protects ur and our belief.

Allah revealed to one of the Prophets, “Whoever meets Me while he loves

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Me, I will make him enter My Paradise. Whoever meets Me while he fearsMe, I will spare him My Hell. And whoever meets Me and is ashamedbecause of his sins, I will make the angels who record deeds forget hissins.”

02-01-2010, 05:14 PM


salam.

this is a very good question. I've often thought this myself many

times. After all, aren't we taught to believe that in matters of

debate, the Qur'an ALWAYS has preference over hadith.

Its not as if all scholars agree on it. I've read many scholars say

that it is in regards to political/religiousl treason and not simply

changing religion.

As far as the Ottomans, apparently they took away the apostasy

law after pressure from the British.

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/685...ent=a714004459

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02-01-2010, 05:21 PM


The thing is that the ahadith(the sunnah) are the explanations for

our actions. Like how to pray, how many rak'at etc.

So these narrations that you posted up are in accordance to the

law of Allah, they are sahih and they have been agreed upon bythe ulama in the action there in(kiilling the one who exits the

religion), as it was the practice of the Prophet Muhammad

and the khulufa arashedeen.

Aside from that some verse that point to the fact that murtad has

done something great and is deserving of a punishment that I

found in some of the books of fiqh are verses 38-39 of surah

anfal..

Say to those who have disbelieved, if they cease (from disbelief)

their past will be forgiven. But if they return (thereto), then the

examples of those (punished) before them have already preceded

(as a warning).

And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and

polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion(worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But

if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly,

Allah is All-Seer of what they do.

Please keep in mind that the ayat that you posted are according to

a person who was a kafir not who became a kafir after excepting

Islam.

Sometimes due to our limited knowledge we cannot come to a

conclusion on a hadith that says something, and another hadith

says something else(possibly even the opposite), However the fact

is that our problem is not in the ahadith or ayat but rather it is our

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understanding.

The prophet alayi salaam said I was ordered to kill the people until

they say La ilaha Illa Allah.....

But we also know that there is no compulsion in religion....

So how do we reconcile? We have to go to the scholars, and we

have to understand each of these statements according to the true

and real meaning, and we have to look at the sunnah, and ahadith,

and actions of the sahaba, and the statements of the ulama to see

how to implement these things in the right way..If we can't then we believe in the ayat, and ahadith(according to

its authenticity) without understanding how or why, until Allah gives

us tawfeeq in understanding them.

and allah knows best...

Last edited by Abu Zakariya Yahya; 02-01-2010 at 05:31 PM.

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