HANBAL CONTRA MUNDUM

7/25/2019 HANBAL CONTRA MUNDUM

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PART 1

ISLAM is not a terrorist religion , but it faced terrorism from inside and

outside. Terrorism is the worst kind of eres!. Such a eres! does contradict

"rthodo# $Isla%m.

The third &ali'h (sman was )rst to face the terrorism from inside.The

insurrectors, some of them latter became the most terrorist sect in the

histor! of Religious istor! namel! *har+ites terroried Muslim world for

centuries after.

-ut there were some monarchs who became a s!mbol of terrorism for the

"rthodo# Islam such as Mamu%n Ar Rahid/, Akbar Son "f umaiun% etc.

Mamu%n was a liberal to all the religions of the world with the 0#ce'tion of

"rthodo# Islam, and Akbar was liberal to all the religions e#ce't Islam not

+ust "rthodo# sect of Islam/.

e come to the worst 'eriod of Muslim istor! when the Mu2tailite

Liberalists tried to use the Im'erial Power against the "rthodo# Islamic sect

called Sunnism. After Mamun Al Mu3t4sim was an other 'erson who

continued brutalit! and in+ustice to "rthodo# Islam.

The stor! begins with the 5uestion %6 hether 7uran is a &reation "f 8eit!

ALL4/9.

This is a corollar! of a fundamental 5uestions%6 :71;8oeth 8eit! Possess

Attributes of Perfection like Power, Life etc9.:7ot. If the! are not 0ternal then this means in the

0ternit! 8eit! as Powerless, *nowledgeless etc. If the! are 0ternal then%6

0ither the! are Identical to the 8eit! or the! are 8istinct ?rom the 8eit!.


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oun "f &hristos or Messeiah which is used is Iesous. I ha=e neither used

Arabic ?orm HI%sa% nor 0nglish form esus but the @reek form Iesous.

Some time colours are used to shew diEerences of em'hasis ande#'lanations of situations.

I ha=e not acce'ted Mu3taalahs2 re'orts about the e=ents of trial,since the!

are not canonical but a'ocr!'hal ,hence unreliable, untrustworth! ,and

unauthorati=e. Mu3taalah were not men of the )eld of conser=ing traditions,

narrations re'orts and oral dictum.


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?or e#am'le ah%i% who was a Mutaili and literar! 'ol!math who wrotebooks onoolog! and 'hiloso'h! re'orteth an e=ent of trial as follow%Ahmad ibn Abi 8u2ad :the Mu$taili chief 5adi; asked him anbal/, JIs it truethat a thing must be either created or uncreated9J

an%bal%6/ JKes.JJ

7a%d%i% $Abu%8a%=u%d%6/ JAnd the 7ur2an is a thing9J

JKes.J

7a%d%I% $Abu 8a%=u%d %6/ JIs it true that onl! 8eit! is uncreated9J9J

%anbal/JKes.J

7a%d%i%6/Then the 7ur2an is created9J

%anbal%6/JI am no dialectician,J he re'lied at last.This is a fabricated re'ort for se=eral reasons.0ither Al ahi hath in=ented itin his imagination or acce'ted the unreliable source with out testing thereliabilit! and credibilit! at the chain of re'orters and sources of the re'ort,1/ It is well known that all the Ahlussunnah sects re+ect the Mutiilah2s A#iomof "nl! "ne 0ternal.It is certainl! not the belief of Imam Ahmad -in anbal .So this is a false ascri'tion to im if the word Shai2 is in the meaning of0#istent i.e "ne That 0#isteth.ow abai was forced to chose that their res'ecti=eagents i.e doers are their &reator ,not the 8eit!.-ut this was not stated b!Mu3tailah before him.So the alleged argument of "nl! "ne 0ternal is not e=en according to theMu3tailah2s standerd.In regard to Ibn al4-akka2 al4Akbar, it is re'orted that he re'lied to Isha5 theoFcial 7uestioner that the 7ur2an was something made but not &reated.Ibn al -akka2 was clea=er enough to send a silent message to Mamun , Abu

8a=ud and other Mu3tailah scholars that as the! themsel=es belie=e thatoluntar! Acts and 8oings "f uman beings etc,. are neither 0ternal >or&reated but tem'oral and made or done or both, the same is true for 8i=ineActs and 8oings. Although Ma+orit! of Ahlussunnah of Post anbal 'eriodbelie=e that an! thing that is not &reated b! 8eit! is either 0ternal or non0#istent, the same is not true for Mu3tailah and their 'roto sect 7adri!ah.


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An! how Imam Ahmad -in anbal could easil! res'onse b! Ibu 8a=ud, if hewas actuall! asked to answer the abo=e argument as follow%68oeth 8eit! a=e Power "=er All Things.0ither e ath or e 8oeth >ot a=e It.If e 8oeth >ot a=e It then It &ontradicteth =erses "f 7uran which sa!

8i=ine "mni'otence Is ('on All Things.If e ath It then e Must a=e Power N"mni'otence "=er imSelf Since8eit! Is imSelf a Thing.If 8eit! Is >ot a Thing then Sim'l! 8eit! Is >othing. In more sim'le words ifall things are 'ossible to 8eit! then it im'lieth that 8eit! is imself Possibleto imSelf. -ut this cannot be. "b=iousl! the word thing is not in themeaning of 0#istent.An other conundrum would ha=e been a 'roblem for $Al ah%i% and Abi 8uada like is as follow%6 8oes 8eit! ath Power o=er e=er! Thing or not. If notthen 8eit! is eak. If 8eit! ath Power o=er e=er! thing then Is that Powersince 0ternit! or >ot. If >ot then 8i=ine Power is not 0ternal. This again

Im'lieth 8eit! is 0ternall! eak and 0ternall! >ot "mni'otent. If this Powero=er all Things are 0ternal then the Things in the 0ternal Power are also0ternal. If 0ternal then 8eit! is not the onl! 0ternal , but each and e=er!thing that is in is 0ternal Power is also 0ternal. This im'lieth the 0ternit! ofall the Things "T0R TA> 80ITK and -0SI80 80ITK.This conundrum is soPowerful that it is =alid if atleast a single thing is belie=ed to be in 8i=inePower.It would ha=e been im'ossible to be answered on Mu3tailah2s own ground.Since the! can onl! res'onse that 8eit! is an 0#ce'tion. If 8eit! Is an0#ce'tion then 8i=ine Attributes like 8i=ine "mniscinence, 8i=ine"mni'otence and 8i=ine S'eech are also 0#ce'tions along ith 8eit!. A

Possible res'onse ma! be gi=en that the word Thing in Mu3tailahiannomenclature means onl! &ontingents and 8eit! is neither &ontingent norAbsurd-ut in this case Mu3tailah must face an other 'roblem. 8eit! 8oeth *noweach and e=er! Thing . The word Thing in this regard meaneth a generalterm which is e5uall! 'redicated with out an! change in meaning to Absurds,PossiblesN&ontingents and >ecessaries. So If this word meaneth "nl!&ontingents or Possibles then this is Tautological to the claim that 8eit!>either *noweth Im'ossibles, Absurds , &ontingents that hath not occurredor shall not occur, and e=en is "wn 8i=ine Self which 'ertaineth im as aTautological A''ertainment.So if the word Thing is used for the =er! 8eit!

imSelf and doeth not make an! 'roblem for Mu2tailah, the =er! same wordif used for 8i=ine Attributes &annot make an! 'roblem to "rthodo# as well.So it is clear that all of these are +ust 'roduct of ahi2s own mind.If Imam was to be asked the 5uestion %6 Is 8ei! the "nl! 0ternal, is was tore'l! them as follow%The! "nl! 0ternal 0ssence is 8i=ine or 8i=ine 0ssence Is the "nl! 0ternal0ssence.


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B/ The language used b! Al ahi is disgraceful for a 'erson like ImamAhmad.

B,a/ The cali'h saw that he was as untruthful as he was stubborn in the faceof irrefutable arguments..

B,b/ e 7adi Abu 8a=ud/ /merel! wished to bring out theinsolence of the man2s lies I,e Iman Ahmad/, +ust as he had e#'osed theshamelessness of his obstinac!.These are two e#am'les to 'ro=e that ahi was a >"T doing ustice while hewas writing these words and sentences.Still I ha=e tried to answer some of the false re'ortings of ahi at the cost ofhistoricit! in this 'la! since this is a drama not intended to 'reser=ehistoricit! e=ent b! e=ent but in 'rinci'le. "n the contrar! Re'orts of ahicannot be acce'ted as the records actual and factual e=ents which occurredbefore him with out 'ro'er sources and re'orters. Since he is not attem'tingto write a drama but wanteth to write with historical certainit!. ere he

faileth. an 0ss and his co'ulation argument.

A scholar like an 0ss an 0ss, Thologie und @esellschaft/ has tried to den!

the )rmness of anbal on =iews and lo!alt! of %anbal to to his belief b!

making an argument stated below%6

If Imam Ahmad had not co'ulated , he would not been released from his

im'risonment.

-ased on this argument based on con+ecture tries to den! all the canonical

re'orts and to second the non canonical re'orts of Mas3udi,Ka35ubi,ah%i%and $Al Murtad%a%.

-ut historical e=idences can not be refuted with such an eas! method.

Three of the four re'orters were certainl! not 'resent at the e=ents and at

best the! can ha=e re'orts from human sources. These were the sources and

narratos of the e=ents. This 'ro=es with certaint! that these three were not

e!e witness of the acts and e=ents which the! re'ort in their works. -ut the

narrators of the e=ents cannot be trusted. Since the! are not authentic

re'orters. A 'ro'er discussion on ann2s argument is be!ond the sco'e ofthis work/.

This makes $Al ah%i% the onl! candidate to be a 'ossible e!e witness. -ut as

a Mu2taili he himself has great 're+udices against $Imam $Ah%mad -in

%anbal:Pronounciation% %AMM4-AL;.


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I is certainl! im'ossible for a Mu3tail to acce't that a 'erson sur=i=es all the

'unishments sentenced to him +ust for a belief which Mu3taili think as

absolutel! wrong. This might ha=e inclined him to concoct and fabricate

re'orts. If there is some truth in them e=en then there are distortions in

them.

"ne cannot trust in $Al ah%i%2s re'orts .

Ma! I ask the learned scholar that if all the canonical re'orts of Imam

Ahmad are false then what is the authorit! of Al ahi himself. ?urther Imam

was not freed but sent to his home where is was ke't as a ca'ti=e in his

house and was not allowed to teach. Similarl! if the canonical re'orters are

to be disbelie=ed at worst according to ann/ or to be doubted at best

according to ann/ then wh! he belie=es that >on &anonical re'orters ate

re'orting the truth with historical certaint!99

Is this not like to re+ect >ew Testamental @os'els and to acce't A'ocr!'hal

@os'els, which ma! not be acce'table on religious and seculat grounds since

>ew Testamental orks 're4e#ist A'ocr!'hal @os'els.

-ased on a single argument ann tries to refute the credibilit! and reliabilit!

of canonical$Al 7a%nu%ni/ re'orts and to second non canonical re'orts. "n

what authorit! he has the right to dis'ute with canonism $Al 7anu%inah/.

-ut the argument it self is a weak one. It is 'ossible that Monarch who ruled

with a 'ower resting in him and not sub+ect to an! constitution , whether

Islamic or Secular , and to follow Islamic Laws was a matter of choice not a

com'ulsion in regard to him in se=eral cases, released Imam $Ah%mad -in

%anbal. hat im'ossibilit! ann has found9. "ne must not talk about Logical

and Mathematical Possibilities Im'ossibilities but onl! discuss istorical

Possibilities. If such an e=ent is historicall! 'ossible then ann2s argument

becomes too weak to be considered worth! to be refuted. ow e=er some

ma! modif! ann2s argument and ma! claim that% Although it is istoricall!

Possible !et it is istoricall! Im'robable. -ut )rst this claim of istoricall!

Im'robable is highl! contro=ersial, and ma! not be acce'ted. Second , a

Reliable istorical Re'ort can onl! be challenged if there is a istoricalIm'ossibilit!. -ut not u'on a istorical Im'robabilit!.It is once again to

esca'e the sco'e of the 'resent book to discuss the istorical Probabilit! of

this e=ent in 'articular and such e=ents in general. Laws and 'rinci'les of

istoricit! cannot be sus'ended b! the greatness of ann2s scholarshi'.

Although I res'ect him as a scholar , but e=en his arguments be sub+ect of

critical studies


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h! Mu3tasim sent him and not ke't him in the 'rison in the ca'ital is a

5uestion but not an argument.

A 5uestion about an e=ent cannot challenge the historicit! of the e=ent. So itis not the res'onsibilit! of a historian to answer the 5uestions which he

re'orts. There ma! be a number of reasons can be suggested but this

5uestion e=en if not answered can not be a dis'ro=e of the re'orted e=ents .

A 'ossible answer is that Mu3tasi%im did admire the knowledge of Imam. e

onl! ordered to scourge him so that he ma! co'ulate. -ut when he found

out that Imam is not going to co'ulate he ordered him to send him to his

house since it was clear to him that this 'rocedure is +ust useless and is not

going to work. Ancient Monarchs who ruled b! degrees and orders some time

can be diFcult to rationalie and to reason.A lot de'end u'on their will whichma! =ar! from one time to an other time, e=en if the time 'eriod between

these two times is short.

I detail discussion on ann 0ss2s argument ma! be seen in the last as a

Su''liment.

o'ing that it will hel' 'eo'le in the 0nglish s'eaking world to understand

Muslims and their 'atience against diEerent sorts of terrorism and in+ustice ,I ma! now de'art from m! readers with lo=e, aEection and good will, all at

the same time.


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PARTot then e ceaseth to be "mni'otent. If e doeth ha=e this

'ower then this meanth e can destro! is "ness.

If e can 8estro! is (nit! then e ceaseth to be the 8eit!.

Muslim Scholar% This is a theological 5uestion and legal scholars do not like

to indulge in such 5uestions.

Maha Ra+a%6 Is that all thou canst sa!9

Muslim Scholar %Kes Sir.

MahaRa+a%6 Thou disa''ointed me. I ha=e seen enough. Thou ma!st return

to th! countr!.To the Ro!al riter of 0'istle.

Maha Ra+a% rite to the &ali'h "f Muslims. Seeing is belea=ing. I ha=e seen

that th! religion cannot answer a sim'le 5uestion of theolog!. h! should

one ecce't th! religion. It is not for enlightened 'ersons.

In the court of the @reat Muslim &ali'h a s'eaker saith that the "ur scholar

hath returned but was unable to re'l! a single 5uestion.

arun%6 This is a disgrace .S'eaker%6 Ma! I read the Te#t of the Indian Monarch2s e'istle.

After hearing the 0'istle &ali'h asked the delegation about the 5uestion

asked in the Indian &ourt.

Member of 8elegation% Sir e asked a 7uestion which I do not like to re'eat.

&ali'h% hat was the 5uestion.

Member% The 7uestion was % If 8eit! is "mni'otent then 8oeth e the Power

to Make Another 8eit! Like imself. If e doeth not hath this Power eceaseth to be "mni'otent. If e doeth ath this Power e ceaseth to be (nit

8eit!.

&ali'h% &an an! one answer this conundrum9


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A &ourtier% Sir if I ma! sa! that onl! 8ialectics &an Res'onse to Theological

7uestion. Theologian are disliked in th! court. If onl! thou hath allowed them

in th! court Sir , e would not be ashamed of this disgrace.

&ali'h% Is there a theologian in the court.

A !oung student stood u' A>8 SAI8. Sir I am a student of theolog! as well.

ow e=er as theologians are not liked in the court I ke't it as a secret.

&ali'h% If thou can answer this &onundrum.

Student%6 @reat &ali'h "f Muslims. This 5uestion is analogous to the

7uestion . &an 8eit! make im eak and destro! is "mni'otence.9

&ali'h% An other 'roblem

Student % >ot at all Sir. 8i=ine Power is "mni'otence in the sense that it is oneach and e=er! Possible and &ontingent. Absurdities, Im'ossibilities and

Incontingencies all 0#clude "mni'otence of 8eit!.

0#clusion "f them do not limit 8i=ine Power from being "mni'otence.

&ali'h%6 I acce't m! mistake to im'ose an useless ban on Theologians and

8ialectics. Let this bo! be send to Indian Mahara+a.

&ourtier. Sir he is +ust a student. e ma! not be able to answer more

com'le# 5uestions. It is there fore re5iuested that thou ma!st send a Scholar

of theolog!.

&ali'h% So send him soon.

To the ro!al riter of the court.

rite as dictated.

Indian Maha R+a I am sending thee a 'erson 'erfect for discussion.

(nfortunatel! I chose a 'erson who was not a theologian but a legal

s'ecialist.

Mamun one of the sons of The @reat &ali'h was hearing all this with @reat

&are. e said to one of the coutiers.

Mamun%6 I want to stud! Theolog!. Arrange a Teacher for me.

History does not recard what happen to the teacher send to India.


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PARTB

Se=eral !ears latter Mamun is at was with his ste' brother Amin.

&ali'h arun had died and the two brothers are struggling for the thrown.

Amin and Mamun are two brothers who ha=e a common father but theirmothers are diEerent. Amin is the son of noble 7ueen Uubaidah he belo=ed

wife of arun and Mamun is the son of a bound maid .

ow e=er Mamun is e#tra ordinar! brilliant . In the war Amin is killed and

Mamun won the crown and the throne. >ow he is the &ali'h .

In the court of Mamun.

Mamun% As the &ali'h "f Muslims I assure that I shall alwa!s remain faithful

to the religion. M! 'olic! is liberal. I do not want 'eo'le to li=e under fear butin lo=e. There is full freedom of s'eech ,and Ibelie=e that we can settle all

the religious and sectarian dis'utes b! dialogues ,discussions and debates.

&ourtiers% ail to the new &ali'h.

Mamun Looking at a -ound Maid asketh her to sit beside him.

As she cometh she maketh an ob+ection

-ound Maid% 8ear &ali'h I cannot sit beside thee.

Mamun% h! Am I not worth of thee.

-ound Maid% >o Sir but th! mouth smellest which I cannot bear.

Mamun is ashamed , and asketh the Ro!al Ph!sician to gi=e him medicine for

this.

A &ourtier% @reat &ali'h Punish the oman, she hath make some disgrace in

th! highness.

Mamun% >ot at all. This is her right and I ha=e assured e=er! one freedom of

e#'ression.

If she hath not told the truth no one else would ha=e. She is one of the best

woman in the court who lo=eth truth .

An "ther &ourtier% hat a ustice. ail to Mamun.

An other time inside the court.


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Mamun % Let us 'la! a game. An! one toucheth an! thing in the court then it

is his or her.

All the 'eo'le begineth to touch diEerent e#'ensi=e things. A man e=en

toucheth the crown of Mamun.

Mamun% Take the crown. >ow it is thine.

Man % Mamun is @reat, the lo=er of 'eace, +ustice, and truth.

A -ound maid cometh and touches Mamun.

-ound Maid% I toucheth Mamun, as he himself is inside the 'remises of the

courth. >ow e is mine.

0=er! one in the court is astonished.

Mamun% Thou hast owned me. >ow I am Thine. I take thee as m! 5ueen.

&ourtiers%6 ath an! one seen such a 'erson who li=eth b! lo=e and +ustice.

Mamun% To rule with fear is the worst kind of go=ernment , to rule with lo=e

and friendshi' is the best kind of go=ernment.

An other time in the court.

Mamun to one of his sla=es in the court.

Mamun% ust bring me a cu' of water.

Sla=e%6 h! should I. If thou are thirst! thou shouldst go th! self.

Mamun to another sla=e.

Mamun%6 A cu' of water .

Second Sla=e% h! thou art so idle. @o th! self.

A &ourtier%6 @reat &ali'h Punish them.

Mamun%6 >o . In no wa!. It is =er! bad to 'unish if some one s'eaketh whathe liketh to.

Perha's I ma! drink water m! self and not to trouble others.


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PARTG

Mamun "n the Thrown%After the war was o=er the winner celebrates a =ictor!. In his s'eech he sa!s%

I belie=e in 'eace, and +ustice. I belie=e in total freedom of religions. ow

e=er I belie=e that Islam is the most ad=ance and rational religion which

ma! be 'ro=ed to be true on basis of rational arguments.

In m! court there there must be a 'lace of inter religious debates and

discussions.

I m! self am a student of theolog! and can decide which thing is true.I lo=e 'eace , +ustice and truth.

I> the court of Mamun there was a 'eriod of Religion discussions. ews,

&hristians, Ma+usis , all sort ofreligous scholars were 'resent in the court.

7adi Abu 8a=ud was one of the leading scholars of Mu3tailah sect and used

to defend Islam as according to Mu3tailah.

PARTA @RA>8 8IS&(SSI">

In the court there was a discussion between a Ma+usi Uoroastrian or

Magus/scholar and 7adi Abu 8=ud Al Mu3taili on the Issue of Two 8eties. A/

8eit! "f @ood. -/ 8eit! "f 0=il. The Ma+usi Scholar was tr!ing to 'ro=e that

the dogma of a single good deit! is incorrect. e was attem'ting to 'ro=e

that if there is a Single @ood &reator then the e=ils and bad in the world

cannot be e#'lained 'ro'erl!. The debate was near its end. Two &reator

8ogma was is an attem't to answer the 7uestion of the 0#istence "f 0=il

and -ad in the orld. If 8eit! is @ood then whence cometh 0=il and -ad, and

ho is the &reator "f 0=il and -ad found in the orld "f 8eit!.

Ma+usi Uoroastrian/ Scholar%6


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There are two t!'es of &reators. The @ood 8eit! Is the &reator "f @oodness

ho is called Ahura Mada or Kadan. The 0=il 8eit! Is the &reator of 0=il

ho is called Angra Mainu or Ahriman. The @ood 8eit! cannot &reate an!

thing -ad and 0=il. The 0=il 8eit! &annot &reate an! thing @ood. The @ood

8eit! cannot e=en create a being which hath 'ower to do a single e=il or bad

act since to grant such a 'ower is 0=il and -ad inde'endent of the 'oint

whether it will be e#ercised or not. Thus the Power to 8o an 0=il or a -ad act

is itself 0=il or -ad or -oth. Thus the @ood &reator or @ood 8eit! &annot

ha=e the Power to do an! thing 0=il or -ad. e e5uall! lacketh the Power to

&reate an! thing which hath the Power to do an! thing -ad or 0=il. Since it is

also -ad or 0=il to ha=e Power to do or to e#cersise an 0=il or a -ad Act. -ut

0=il and -ad do e#ist in the world but 0=il and -ad cannot e#ist without a

&reator.If the @ood &reator Maketh 0=il and -ad in the orld then e

becometh -ad and 0=il.So it is necessar! to belie=e in dualit! and not in

unit!. hat I mean is%6

If there is onl! "ne 8eit! and If e is @ood, then there cannot be an! bad

and e=il in the orld, not a single one. "therwise The "nl! 8eit! is not

@ood. In brief the dogma of (nit! "f 8eit! or (nit! "f 0ternal&reator cannot

e#'lain the 0#istence "f 0=il and -ad in the orld.

7adi Abu 8a=ud%6

&an the @ood &reator whom th! calleth Ahura Mada or Kadan sto' the

-ad &reator hom th! calleth Angra Mainu or Ahrman from making 0=il. If

thou sa!st >o then this mean e is weak . e lacks the Power to sto' the-ad &reator from &reating 0=ils. If so then e ceaseth to be @ood and

Perfect. e is them Im'erfect. Im'erfect is -ad.ence If e is not Perfect

then e is not @ood.If e ath this Power and doeth not 're=ent the -ad

&reator from Making 0=il and -ad , then e imself is -ad and 0=il, and not

@ood at all.

The Ma+usi Scholar remained in Silence.

Mamun%6 I think think thou hast no answer . I in=ite thee to acce't (nit! .

Ma+usi% @reat &ali'h thou cannot force me to th! religion.

Mamun%6 Kes thou art correct. Thou ma!st remain to th! religion.

Ma+usi Scholar%6 @ratitude for thee and th! ustice.


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S'eaker%6 Tomorrow there is going to be a debate between 7adi Abi 8a=ud

and &hristian Scholars.

Time is o=er for toda!2s debate.

This was re'eated se=eral times.

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T0 @R0AT 80-AT0 -0T00> 7adi Abu 8a=ud and his o''onents.

>e#t da! at same time the debate was about to begun between 7adi Abi

8a=ud and &hristian Scholars.

S'eaker%6 Toda! we are ha=ing a great discussion between 7adi Abi 8a=udand his &hristian Re+oinders.

Mamun%6 -! m! 'ermission the debate must begin now.

S'eaker% Let the grand debate begin.

7adi Abi 8a=ud% To m! res'ectable &hristian o''onents , m! )rst ob+ection is

on the 8ogma "f Trinit!.

I ma! ask &hristian Scholar to 0#'lain Trinit! from authentic sources .

&hristian Scholar%6 e belie=e that ?ather is 8eit! , Son Is 8eit! and ol!

S'irit is 8eit! , Ket 8eit! is "ne.

e do not belie=e in three ?athers or in three Sons or in three S'irits.

Also e do not belie=e that% ?ather is Son, Son is ?ather, Son Is ol! S'irit

and so on. There three are trul! distinct from one another.

7adi Abu 8a=ud% If Pater:as; ?ather/,Kios Son/ and ol! PnumaS'irit/ are

three mutuall! distinct !'ostases then there are three 8eities not +ust

"ne .If there is +ust "ne 8eit! then ?ather is Son, Son is ol! S'irit, ol!S'irit is ?ather ,also Son is ?ather and so on. It is +ust the change of names or

e'ithets . 0=en &hristians belie=e that the Son and Logos are one and the

same !'ostasis not two mutuall! distinct !'ostases.

&hristian Scholar%6 Actuall! we belie=e that the Pater:as; ?ather/ , KiosSon/

and ol! Pnuma S'irit/ are three mutuall! and trul! distinct !'ostases in


20/67

o !'ostasis is 8eit! in the sense of Trinit!.

An "ther &hristian Scholar%6 Sir Iesous Messiah is the Logos ord/ "f 8eit!.

If Logos "f 8eit! then (ncreated, If (ncreated then 8eit!.

7adi Abi 8a=ud%6 "nl! 8eit! is (ncreated not ord "f 8eit!.

?irst &hristian ScholarV6 Then in this case thou hath to admit that 7uran is

also created. 8ost thou belie=e in this.

7di Abi 8A(8 is silent for some time, when a ewish Scholar asked the

&ali'h to sa! some thing.

ewish Scholar%6 Am I allowed to sa! some words @reat &ali'h.

Mamun% Thou art.

ewish Scholar%6I think this 5uestion is 'roblematic for Res'ectable 7adi Ab!

8a=ud.

I onl! e#'lain our =iew that we belie=e that Torah is ord "f @od but not

0ternal. hen 8eit! Kah=ah Said H Let there be Light3 these s'oken words of

Kah=ah are not 0ternal, A>8 I? >"T 0ternal then not (ncreated, and If not

(ncreated then &reated.

An other ewish scholar%6 @reat &ali'h%6 Ma! I be allowed to sa! some thing

in this regard.

Mamu%n %6 AFrmati=e, thou ma!st.

The second scholar% I do dis'ute in this regard with our @reat Schola%r. I sa!

The ords s'oken b! 8eit! which are 5uoted in @enesis are >either 0ternal

>or &reated but 8one and S'oken.


21/67


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23/67

(STI&0

>e#t 8a! in the &ourt of Mamun%

S'eaker% Attention Please% The @reat &ali'h is going to address the court andto issue a degree Mih%na/.

Mamun%

I as theleader of all Muslims claim that 7uran Is a &reation "f 8eit!. It is not

(ncreated as belie=ed b! "rthodo# who are actuall! (northodo#. If 7uran is


24/67

A-L0 -0LI0?.

The! belie=e that 8eit! Shall be seen after then 0nd of the world. This de)es

all the laws of =isibilit! and =ision. The! belie=e that uman Acts are

&reations of 8eit!. This de)es 8i=ine ustice. The! belie=e that 8eit! hath

Power to dohat e ath 'romised not to do . -ut 8eit! cannot do this. ?or

this is nothing but a 'ower to make a ?alse Promise which is nothing but to

s'eak falsehood. The! belie=e that Mu3a=iah R,8/ is a &om'anion of ol!

Pro'het and deser=eth to be res'ected as a &om'anion "f ol! Pro'het. An!

one who saith well or good to Mu3a=iah is outlawed . -ut there is an other

the 'roblem . I must not make an! com'romise on the Issue on the

&reatedness of 7uran. "ne who doeth not change his belief on this

'articular issue shall be 'unished with full might . ow e=er it is not +ust

argument of 'ower, we are read! to remo=e an! doubt if raised b! an!

"rthodo# or traditionalist in this regard.

-ut it must be made clear that if after the remo=ing of doubts no one is

allowed to remain on his former belief of (ncreati=it! "f ol! 7uran. 7adi

Abu 8a=ud and I Shall decide weather the doubts are cleared or not. "f

cource we cannot continue the debate inde)nitel!.

?rom now on all the udges in the courts of law shall be a''ointed afterconfessing that 7uran is a &reation. 7adi a5di is +ust an e#am'le .

?inall! I send a 5uestionnaire to diEerent orthodo# scholars in regard to their

belie=es about 7uran.

There names are%

1/ -ishar -in alid


25/67

ature "f ol! 7uran.reation sus'end his +udicial

'owers.

Sa! to -ishar, that he liethfor there is no sti'ulation between me and him.

Ask him to acce't the belief of &reati=it! "f 7uran. If he recanteth 'ublish it

in 'ublic , and if 'ersisteth, bring his head to me.

Sa! to Ali -in Abi Mu5atil %6 H Thou art not he who said to the &ali'h that

thou =eril! canst absol=e and bind.

Sa! to U!adi that he used falsel! to claim clientshi' with a s'urious son.

Sa! to Ibn >uh thathe em'lo!eth himself in taking usur! to the hindrance of

his knowledge, now he hath added in)delit! as well.

Sa! to Ahmad -in anbal that I m! self am aware of the manner of his

arguments, which is 'ure ignorance and in=alidit!.

Sa! to Sa++adah that his occu'ation hath made him to forget (nit! "f 0ternal.

Sa! to (bidullah -in (mar &arirri that it is e#'osed that he taketh bribes.To Isha5% "ne who acce'teth the belief 'ublish it in general 'ublic. And one

who re+ecteth it bring him in chains to the &a'ital e#ce't -ishar and Ibrahim.

If the 'ersist then their heads must be brought instead of them.

Isha5 maketh an en5uair!.


26/67

ow he looketh at the two remaining 'ersons still struggling for the truth of

"rthodo#! and 7uranic Truth.

Isha5 % hat thou sa!est Ibn >uh.

Ibn >uh%6 I am 're'aired to face m! fate. I belie=e what I ha=e belie=e in

Past and shall continue to belie=e in it in future.

Isha5 % &hain him.

And what thou sa!est " Ahmad -in anbal.

Imam Ahmad -in anbal%6 I 'ersist on m! belie=e.

Two of them refuse to surrender and to submit. The! had to )ght the might

of the Mornarch.

In the darkness when orthodo# hath last all ho'es like wickets in a &ricket

Match two men were still struggling to end the match on the last ball of the

match, not before it.


27/67

ot a &

1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

1111111111111111111111111111

I-> >( 8I0T%6

Ibn >uh%6 If thou art ali=e to face the trial , thou must not fail.

Imam Ahmad%6 Self of Mine *noweth It.

Ibn >uh%6 Look Ahmad , 8eit! is imself the sa=ior of is Religion. e

re5uireth not me or thee.

Togather we are a team. If thou dieth I shall be left alone.

Imam Ahmad%6 Ma! I be as fortunate as thee.

Ibn >uh%6 I am fortunate enough to die before the trial.

Imam Ahmad%6 Ma!st thou li=e.

Ibn >uh%6 I think Iam about to die.

8uring the tra=elling fro -aitine to -ughdad Ibn >uh falleth ill. is illness

increases before the trial hath to begun. e is about to die .

Mamun is in Roman Terrotaries namel! -!antine.

I> T0 &"(RT "? MAM(>.

A &ourtier asketh him that a scholar wanteth to come in the court.e

informeth Mamun that the scholar saith that he hath some 5uestions about


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o As 'er rules of argumentation thou art the claimant, and a

claimant must state his claim in e#'licit words.

-ashar/ This is not a 5uestion to be asked since it is a =er! ob=ious .

-ashar%6 Sa! so.

Imam Abdul Ai%6 0ither the 8eit! ath &reated 7uran in is "wn 8i=ine

Self "r e ath &reated the 7uran In Association ith is 0ssence "r e

ath &reated 7uranSe'arate ?rom imSelf.

There is no forth o'tion for thee.

-ashar is silent and doeth not make an! res'ond. e is astonished.

Mamun after some time asketh S

Mamun%6 It is clear that -ashar hath no 'ro'er answer for th! argument ,how e=er before lea=ing the court thou shall e#'lain th! argument. 0=en I

ha=e ne=er thought of this in m! entire 'olemic life.

S/ Sir It is =er! clear . If -ashar o'teth for the )rst, then it is Per Se

Im'ossible and Per Se Absurd that an! thing Is &reated In 8i=ine Self.

Mamun / True%


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B

B

Mamun% Thou art allowed to lea=e in 'eace.

Mamun2s sound like a sound coming from the gra=e , saith.

If e is not then e is ust a doer of the act or doing of &reation and not the

&reator "f the Act. The Prime 8oer.In this case 7uran is a S'eech with out a S'eaker. To do an act is one thing

and to &reate an act is an other thing. So 8eit! cannot be an Acti=e Partici'le

i.e S'eaker "f an! S'eech what so e=er. The 7uestion Is 8eit! the &reator

"f Act "f &reation as ell. If e is then this is absurdum ad in)nitum.This is

that each Act "f &reation is a &reation ,there for there is a &reation 'rior to

each and e=er! creation. And this is Per Se Absurd.This im'lieth that 8eit!

cannot &reate an! thing.

S/ >ow if the third o'tion is acce'ted then 7uran is not a 8i=ine S'eech and

8eit! is not the S'eaker "f the S'eech. &reator "f a S'eech cannot be the

S'eaker "f the S'eech.

Mamun/ So the )rst two "'tions are Im'ossible. If Im'ossible then not in

8i=ine "mni'otence.

S/ If it is &reated In Association ith the 8i=ine 0ssence then this is again Per

Se Absurd and Per Se Im'ossible for an! thing to be created In Association

ith 8i=ine 0ssence. Also It is Per Se Im'ossible for an! &reation to be

Associated ith 8eit!.

Mamun looking at -ashar.

Mamun% Although I am not losing m! faith in the 8ogma "f &reation "f

7uran , but it a''ears that thou hath to work hard to work out all the

'ossible arguments of the o''onents. This man hath surel! made a 'roblem

in m! head.I must consult 7adi Abu 8a=ud to )nd a wa! in order to refute

this argument. -ut I m! self belie=e that this argument is going to trouble

e=en 7A8I A-( 8A(8. I we are unable to make a 'ositi=e res'onse I am in

doubt that addition of 7adi Abu 8a=ud is going to make an! diEerence.

-ASIR%6h! didst thou not kill him.

Mamun%6 I granted him 'eace with the condition he shall win. e did win it.

MAM(> -0&"M0T SI&* and dieth


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B1

B1

The 'roblem in the mind made Mamun some what sick. e soon becometh

ill.

ow w=er Mamun did not li=e long after this debate. e died in August QBB

A&.

>ot be!ond the sus'ition of curse of two noble characters of istor!.444444

If this was not the onl! cause of his ultimate illness then it was 'robabl! one

of the causes of it.

R0P"RT "? 80AT "? MA%M(> &">0K08 T" %A>-AL

A man % anbal dost thou know Mamun hath died.

anbal% Looking u' at hea=ens . -ut this is not the end. It is the beginning ofsomething e=en worse then the things in the 'eriod of the 8ead Mamun.

$Abu $Is4h%a%5 -in a%ru%n Al Mu3tasim -illah O4QG


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Becessaril! 0ternal other wise 8i=ine "mniscience is im'lied to be a&reation.The Second "ne%6 Then 8i=ine *nowledge is &reated.$Imam $Ah%mad -in %anbal%6 Then thou art an unbelie=er.

>ow it is not onl! the matter of 7ur2an but also of 8i=ine "mniscience.

"ne "f the Mu3taali scholar%6 e cannot continue to discuss further afterth! this statement.

The! lea=e.

The 'refect maketh a lasteEort to 'ersuade Ima%m $Ah%mad -in %anbal to be con=inced %Prefect%6HAh%mad -in %anbal, it2s !our life at stakeW The cali'hhas =owednot to kill !ou b! the sword, but instead to thrash thee and cast thee$Ah%mad -in %anbal and to trans'ort to the 'alace, whereinto a 'lace where thou shalt ne=er see the sun.3.Imam Ah%mad -in %anbal%6 Is this the 'roof the! ha=e for their belie=e inthe &reatedness "f 7ur2a%n9

Prefect% >o we ha=e a number of 'roofs.H8oeth 8eit! not sa!, $e ha=e made 7ur2a%n in Arabic. :GB% B;9 If8eit! made it, didn2t he create it93Imam Ahmad -in anbal%-ut thou th! self belie=est that the in)niti=e a3alMaking/ is not used in the meaning of creation. 7ur2a%n saith Hemade them like a )eld of chaE3 :1% ;, in which the same =erb :jaX3ala;clearl!means Hto make into,3 not Hto create.3Prefect%6 >ow I know that th! obstinac! is great.I gi=e u'.$Imam $Ah%mad -in %anbal%6 Is this not obstinac! to make others to

co'ulate b! force and take their freedom from them.

Prefect ordered %6 Sent him to the &ali'h al4MuXtasim.

e s'ent the night in con)nement.IMAM2S (>&L0 "> T0 M"0%


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BB

BB

Is4h%a%5 b.anbal goeth to the 'refect, Is4h%a%5 b.Ibra%hY%m, re5uesteth forhisrelease.e remindeth the 'refect that the! both the are descended from theabna X of Mar=, and that their ancestors had fought side b! side. Thisa''eared to works some how.

$Is4h%a%5 -in anbal%4 M! ne'hew hath done no a'ostac!. e onl! diEereth inthe inter'retation.$Ish%a%5 -in $Ibra%hi%m%6 So what I ma! do for thee.$Is4h%a% -in %anbal%4 I suggest thata grand debate ma! be held under su'er=ision of &ali'h himself and in ma!consisteth of scholars and +urists.I do not insist that it ma! be of Ahmad -in anbal2s =iew9Prefect% I shall con=e! th! re5uest to the &ali'h 'ersonall!.Imam2s (ncle%6 I am sure that if the! are able to 'ro=ide con=incingarguments and =alid 'roofs m! ne'hew shall acce't their belief.?amil! members andfriends and (ncle "f Imam Ah%mad -in %anbal

"ne of the friends to Ish%a5 -in anbal%6

Thou hast suggested a tra' for th! ne'hew. All his o''onents and ri=als shall

be in=ited and a single 'erson cannot debate with a grou' of o''onent

scholars how so e=er great he ma! be.

(ncle%6 I shall beg Ahmad -in anbal to acce't their belief , this is the best

I can do, and I do ha=e no oth+er alternati=e.

(ncle and the >e'hew%

(ncle%6 >e'hew I thing it is be!ond human limits to stand against an em'iresinglehandedl!. So ha=e merc! on us and acce't their belie=es.

Imam% ?or what crime, I am to acce't m! faith as a sin.

(ncle% Thou ma! re=ert to th! original faith latter.

Imam%6HIf the scholar assents out of terror, and the ignorant out of

ignorance,when truth shall be re'laced b! falsehood, light b! darkens and

e=er!thing shall be to's!4tur=!93

(ncle% Mark it >e'hew, u' till now thou hast seen nothing, the! shall scourgeto and 'ain thee."n that da! e=en thou shalt co'ulate. 8o it before that da!.

Imam% 6 I ma! see the da! too.


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BG

BG

I-> AL AIS.AM A>8 IS A8I&0%

anbal is in Prison waiting for the trial and 'robable 'unishment ne#t da!.

hen he heareth a =oice%

A man% Art thou Ahmad -in anbal.anbal%6 I am .

The Man%6 Let me introduce b! self Ibn Al aisam.

anbal%6 I do think that I a=e heard this noun before.

Th e Man%6 KesW Thou must ha=e . I am a Robber , 'erha's the greatest of all

robbers of the time.

Imam Ahmad -in anbal%6 hat thou wanteth. hat a robber hath to do

with me9

Ibn aisam%6 Are we not both sla=es of 8eit!, is bound men9

$Imam $Ah%mad -in %anbal%6 &ertainl! we are.

$Ibn aisam%6 &an a bad sla=e of 8eit! sa! some thing to a good one9

%anbal% Kes. -ut who is good is onl! known to 8eit!.

$Ibn aisam%6 A ha=e come to thee to ad=ise thee.

A good ad=ise from a great sinner and transgressor.

Ibn aisam%6 Let me tell thee some thing )rst. I am whi''ed and scourged

countless number of times +ust to admit that I ha=e commited crimes. -ut I

ne=er confessed.

anbal%6 h! 9

Ibn aisam%6 ?or m! lo=e for falsehood and wrongness was so great. -ut Is

th! lo=e for truth and righteousness as great as m! lo=e for wrongness and

falsehood.


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B

B

anbal%6 State in 0#'licit sentences, not in riddles.

Ibn aisam%6 As thou saist.

anbal% &ontinue and 'roceed.

Ibn aisam%6In m! entire life I ha=e done no good e#ce't one and that is I

solemnl! belie=e that 7uran is (ncreated 8i=ine Attribute.

Ibn aisam%6 I do not know whether 8eit! shall forgi=e me or not ,but if thou

'ra!est for me I ha=e a ho'e.

Imam anbal% I can onl! sa! HMa! 8eit! forgi=e th! sins3.

Ibn aisam >eglecting Imam2s res'onse%4There is a test for thee and 8eit!

ath 'ut thee to an s'ecial test.

If thou failest anbal then th! sin shall be the greatest sin in the histor! of

the world. ?or

It is the issue of entire righteousness. I know not the future but it is the most

obligator! dut! to stand against the t!rant ,brute and un+ust for the sake of

righteousness, truth ,and realit!.

Ahmad -in anbal%6 @reat is th! argument.

I-> AISAM If I could do this for m! lo=e for falsit! ,thou canst do it of the

lo=e of truth.If all the Zoggings and scourging are unable to make me confess

m! true sins,see that the! must not be able to make the acce't the hecrec!

and a'ostac!.

If I can stand against all the 'unishments awarded to me, Thou must standagainst all the 'unishments awared to thee.


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B

B

I ha=e no ho'e for 8i=ine ?orgi=eness but b! belief in (ncreatedness "f ol!

7uran and if thou faileth thou shalt ha=e no ho'e at all. It is not the matter of

thee

Ibn aisam%6

@ratitude to thee " Ibn asam, for th! words are a blessing from 8eit!. The!

erased all the terror of Mu3taalite Punishment from b! heart and mind.

" 8eit!,e is Th! sinner but not an insurrector.

-oth men begin to cr! almost simultaneousl!. "ne for his occured acts in the

'ast and other for his 'ossible acts in the future.

anbal looking towards hea=ensV Let not me fail the test. " 8eit! sa=e Ibnaisam for his faith is truth if not his acts.

anbal%6 " 8eit! if Thou wantest to test me then @i=e me the strength and

'ower to satisf! the test.

anbal looking at Ibn aisam. -ut he hath gone as he hath ne=er been there.

" 8eit! ,Th! "mni'otence is so great that if the whole &osmos Sinneth thou

&anst forgi=e the entiretit! of &osmos. " $ 8eit! ?orgi=e Ibn Al aisam.

anbal Looking u' at hea=ens% " 8eit! , 8o not 'ut me to a 8i=ine Test. ?or Iam too weak to be Tested.

Ahmad -in anbal%6 I know not an! thing but "ne thing , 7uran is

(ncreated,

It is the issue of entire righteousness. I know not the future but it is the most

obligator! dut! to stant against the t!rant ,brute and un+ust for the sake of

righteousness, truth ,and realit!.

-oth men begin to cr! almost simultaneousl!.

?IRST 8AK "? TRIAL%6


37/67

BO

BO

The court of Mu3tasim is full! 're'aired for the trial of $Imam $Ah%mad -in

%anbal.

$Imam is brought in the court where a number of courtiers recei=e him.

$Imam % Is it a debate or a trial.A &ourtier%6 It is a trial.

$Imam% A trial on what transgreesion.

An "ther &ourtier%6 Trial on the crime of belie=ing in a eretical 8ogma.

$Imam% hat is the herec! then if "rthodo#! is termed as herec!.

>o one answereth.

S'eaker%6 Silence in the &ourt. &ali'h is about to s'eak. There is a silence inthe court.

Mu3tasim%6 The "Fcial religion of the &ali'hate is that 7ur2a%n is &reaterd

and not 0ternal. "ne who doeth not belie=e in it is a heretic ins'ite of his

orthodo#!.

$Ah%mad -in %anbal is brought in the court for a trial. I do ha=e full

con)dence on the oFcial scholars and debaters to 'roduce suFcient 'roofs

and arguments to con=ince $Ah%mad -in %anbal

$Imam $Ah%mad -in %anbal%6

I ha=e been interrogated and argued multitude of time , but u'till now a

single e=idence from 7ur2a%n or %adis is not 'roduced.

Mu3!asim% Let the trial begin.

A Mu3taali scholar reciteth the charge sheet against $Imam $Ah%mad -in

%anbal.

H e is charged of the following transgressions%6

1% e belie=eth in the heretic dogma of (ncreatedness of 7ur2a%n.


38/67

BQ

BQ

7ad%i% Abu 8a=u%d%6

hat thou hast to sa! in th! defence.

$Imam % I do admit that 7ur2an is (ncreated 8i=ine S'eech.

Imam looking at Mu3tasim%

M! &reed is to follow ol! Pro'het and is &om'anions. This is the orthodo#!

not herec!.

If I follow that creed wh! should I be tried.

A number of Mutaalah scholars begin to argue Ahmad -in anbal. -ut the!

fail to con=ince him.

Imam Ahmad%6 -ring an! e=idence or 'roofs from the words of 8eit! or from

the words of Pro'het.

Mu3tasam% h!9

anbal%6 -ut I cannot belie=e in th! faith +ust on the basis of some

theological or 'hiloso'hical arguments.

Mu3tasam%6 If thou acce'test m! religion about 7ur2an then I assure thee

that thou shalt become m! belo=ed +ust as m! own son is belo=ed. >ot less

than him2

7adi%6 er! @ood Sir.

%anbal% M! demand is that a 'roof ma! be 'ro=ided from the two most

authentic and authorati=e sourcrs .

Mu3tasam% Then e shall be scourged with out an! 'eace and sal=ation.

7adi% hat if he did not.

S(??0RI>@S "? A>-AL I> T0 &"(RT "? M(3TASAM

In the court Mu3tasam was sa!ing to 7adi Abu 8a=ud.

Mutasam% anbal is a great scholar of traditions. If he acce'teth this belief

then it is dearer to me then an! other thing.


39/67

B

B

7adi Abu 8a=ud%6 I demand %anbal to 'roduce his 'roofs for the

(ncreati=it! "f 7ur2a%n.

Imam. The burden of 'roof is u'on those who want to make a trial and not

u'on the one who is a =ictim of the trial.

7adi% It is a n e=asi=e wa!.

$Imam%6 It is thou who wantest to con=ince other and not me to con=ince

thee. ?or trial is not for thee but for me.

Mu3tasim%6 8o some thing to con=ince him. These theological discussions

are too dr! to understand.

7adi%6 7ur2an is a &reation since it informed about the recent e=ents. hen

an e=ent used to occur, 7ura2n used to discuss

the e=ent.

This is self e=ident 'roof of creation of 7ur2a%n.

$Imam% Ma! I ask is 8i=ine *nowledge not u' to date with e=ents.

7adi% Kes It is.

Imam%6 Then what thou saist about 8i=ine *nowledge,Is it also a creation.

There is a silence in the &ourt.

S0&">8 8AK "? TRIAL%6

%anbal is 'roduced once again in the court.

Shu3aib asketh%6 hat is th! belief about 8eit! and and 7ur2an.

$Imam% This 5uestion is asked se=eral times since m! im'risonment and e=en

before it.-oth of

them are uncreated.

hat is th! 'roof on the uncreatedness of 7ur2a%n. &nast thou 'ro=e it fromthe Te#ts of 7ur2a%n

or from the te#ts of traditions of Pro'het.

%anbal%4 It is an Islamic ACI"M , a Religious >ecessit! that 8eit! and 8i=ine

Attributes


40/67

G

G

are all uncreated.Therefore

7ur2a%n is Increated 8i=ine Attribute of S'eech.

To ask for a 'roof of (ncreatedness of 7ur2a%n is +ust like to ask for a 'roof of

(ncreatedness of the =er! 0ssence "f the 8eit!, or 8i=ine "mniscience orboth.

These articles of faith do not re5uire an! 'roofs .

Mu3tasim is 5uite bored with such discussions.

7ad%I Abi 8a=ud%6 8ost thou belie=e in traditions of Pro'het9

$Imam% !es.

7ad%I Abu 8a=ud.%I f we 'resent some traditions of the ol! Pro'het thenShalt thou co'ulate.

$Ima%m% Present them )rst.

7ad%I asketh -arghu%th to recite the traditions%

-arghuth%

The )rst tradition is from HAbdullah -in H(mar. e narrateth that ?asting and

7ur2an shall ad=ocate for humans. ?asting shall

sa! HLord Rabb/ I abstained him from hisdesires and food in da! so acce't m!

remomendation in regard to his aFresV and

7ur2a%n shall sa! I abstained him from slee' in

night so acce't m! recommendation in regard

to his aFres.

This tradition acce'ts 8eit! as Lord of 7ur2a%n. If 8eit! is Lord of 7ur2an then

7ur2a%n is is &reation.

The second tradition is%$Ima%m % These traditions cannot be taken literall! ,the! must necessaril! be

inter'reted

according to the necessar! A#ioms of Isla%m. hen Mu3tailahs )nd the Te#t

of a Tradition


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how so e=er canonical against them the! do not inter'ret it but den! it. -ut

when the! )nd the Te#t of

a tradition how so e=er non canonical which su''orteth them the! acce't it.

7ad%i%6 hat are their inter'retations9Imam%6 I belie=e that the inter'retations of ambiguous te#ts of 7ur2a%n and

Traditions are onl!

*nown to 8eit!, not e=en to Pro'hets,Messengers,and A'ostles "f 8eit!,

0=en the Last Pro'het, so I cannot state an!

one of them.

Shu3aib%6 State them.

Imam kee'eth silence.-arghuth% e is unable to res'onse.

$Imam% ow can I state what onl! 8eit! *noweth,and hat is onl! known to

8eit!. hat is

"nl! known to 8eith is not e=en known to Pro'hets and Angels with out an!

e#ce'tion.

&anst thou state an! thing that is onl! known to 8eit! without an!

e#ce'tion97ad%I Abu 8a=ud is unable to res'onse and becometh furious.

Mu3taili scholars begin to re'eat their arguments in diEerent words. Imam

res'onseth them

e#'licitl! and soberl!.

ith each argument It is clear to Imam that Mu3tailahs ha=e no new

argument, The! ha=e

'resented what the! 'ossessed. >ow the! were com'elled to re'eat !et indiEerent

words and e#'ressions.

In all surre+ointers and surrebuters Mu3tasim is 5uite bored.e is not of this

)eld.


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7adi%6 hat is th! belief about Al 7uran.

anbal%67uran is the S'eech "f 8eit!.

7adiV Iam not asking about whether 7uran is the S'eech "f 8eit! or It is not,

I am asking whether It is &reation "f 8eit! "r >ot. e all belie=e 7uran asS'eech "f 8eit! . "nl! ahmites den! it. So the 7uestion is hether 7uran is

the 8i=ine S'eech "r >ot9 It is not the 7uestion whether 7uran is the 8i=ine

S'eech "r >ot.

anbal%67uran is (ncreated S'eech "f 8eit!.

7adi% I warn thee anbal that this is a highl! Philoso'hical Issue and thou

dost not know Philoso'h!. Thou art a Traditionalist and a Legalist , So if thou

art unable to under stand the 'roblem e ma! let thee go gi=ing thee the

bene)t of doubt. If thou art unable to understand the nature of the 'roblem

+ust confess it in e#'licit words. hat dost thou sa!9

anbal %6 7uran is (ncreated Attribute "f 8eit!.

That is all hich I sa!. Since If it is &reated then it is not a 8i=ine S'eech,

and if it is a 8i=ine S'eech then it is not &reated.

7ad%i6 >ow there is no bene)t of doubt for thee.

-ashar%6 e is taking us to the same 'osition which HAbdul HAi took me.

%anbal re'eateth with out being asked./

anbal% There is no doubt that 7uran is (ncreated S'eech and Attribute "f

8eit!.

7adi% I 'resume that thou confesseth that thou understand The 'roblem

'ro'erl! and accuratel!.

anbal %6 Ibelie=e that 7uran is (ncreated and (nmade.

7adi% There is onl! "ne (ncreated. There is no (ncreated beside That"ne.

This im'lies that 7uran is a &reation.

anbal%6 There is no such e=idence that 8eit! is the "nl! (ncreated.There is

no e=idence that 7uran is created. If thou wanteth to con=ince me that

7uran is &reated then thou must 'roduce a single e=idence from the ords

and S'eech "f ol! Pro'het with reliable and authentic references and chain

of re'orters.


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7adi% 8ost thou saith an! thing which the ol! Pro'het did not sa!9

anbal%6 "n what authorit! thou claimeth that 7uran is a &reation "f 8eit!.

ords of ol! Pro'het are acce'ted authorit! in Islamic Issues.

7adi%6 8ost 8eit! not sa! that H e ath made 7uran in HArabic3. eril! doe made it an Arabic 7ur2anJ :GB%ow e=er!thing which @od made e must ha=e created.

Mu3tasam% er! @ood 7adi Abu 8a=ud. anbal demanded for an e=idence

from ords of Pro'het and Thou hath 'roduced an e=idence from 7uranic

ords, The ords "f 8eit! Themsel=es .A more 'owerful 'roof then re5uired.

I thing the demand is 'ro=ided .

This sort of argument is understood b! Mu3tas%im because it doeth notin=ol=e 'hiloso'hical and theological conce'ts.

anbal in emotionless =oice s'eaketh as cool as Pure Logician %6 The world

$2 Making22 in Arabic is not a s!non!m of the world $2&reation22.The word

making ma! be inter'reted other wise.

7adi%6 -ut the word Making meanethNimlieth &reation.

anbal%6 "nl! when this transiti=e =erb ha=e onl! one grammatical ob+ect.

-ut if this transiti=e =erb Making hath two grammatical "b+ects then not.

Refrence. In Surah Isra B 8eit! Saith%6

8o not make an! 8eit! beside $ALL4.

7adi%6 8ost thou think that this word doeth not im'l! &reation in the

secondar! meaning.

anbal%6 If the word is not inter'reted, but if then not.

7adi Abu 8a=ud looking at Mu3tasam and other Mu3taalite courtiers saith%4@reat &ali'h this man is not so sim'le as we hath 'resumed. e argueth as

if he is a Logician.

Although he is not a theologian he knoweth suFcient logic to combat us

'olemicall!.


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-arghus to Mu3tasim%6>ow he is going to 'oint out a number of 'laces in

7uran where we Mu3tailites inter'ret the 7uranic words and discard their

real and literal meaning, like the word and used for 8eit!.

7ad%I Abu%8a=ud looketh at -arghus to res'onse in his 'lace, as he is some

what tired and is e#hausted brainicall!.

Shu3aib%6 e acce't the 'rinci'le of inter'retation in 'rinci'le, how e=er

who so e=er who claimeth that the word in 7uran or in words of ol! Pro'het

are not in literal meaning must 'ro=ide at least one e=idence. anbal on

what grounds thou re+ectest the the literal meaning in this =erse.

Also what is the inter'retation of the =erse.

7adi Abu 8a=ud% @reat &ali'h, A man like anbal shall not make an!

inter'retation and shall sim'l! sa! that that inter'retation of certain 7uranic

=erses are "nl! and "nl! *nown to 8eit! and no one 0#ce't the 8eit!. So it

is useless to ask him what is the meaning he taketh. The thing which is

signi)cant is on what grounds he doeth not take the =erse in literal

meaning.This is what he hath done !esterda!.

Mutasim% I demand the reason wh! thou not take the meaning of the word

Making in the =erse literall!.

anbal% 7uran is S'eech "f 8eit! and S'eech "f 8eit! Is an Attribute "f

8eit! like "mniscience of 8eit! is an Attribute "f 8eit!. To sa! 7uran is

&reated is +ust like to sa! that "mniscience of 8eit! is &reated.

Mu3tasim remembereth the last words of !esterda!.

Imam continueth%Also All the Attributes "f 8eit! are 0ternal and (ncreated

with out an! e#ce'tion. If 7ur2an is a &reation then it ceaseth to be a 8i=ine

Attribute,and if so then it ceaseth to be 8i=ine S'eech, and this is what

ahmiah saith.

Imam then turned to the cali'h and said%HThese 'eo'le ha=e no abilit! to distinguish one thing from another, nor an!ca'acit!To distinguish between 8i=ine Attributes and &reations "f 8eit!.To declare"ne "f the 8i=ine Attribute as A &reation im'lieth that All the "ther 8i=ineAttributes are &reated. Then wh! ahmites are blamed when the! sa! that8i=ine *nowledge is not 0ternal9 3.


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As for the =erse what so e=er it ma! mean it doeth not mean that 7uran is a

&reation.

Meaning of certain =erses AR0 ">LK *>"> T" 8eit! and no one but

8eit!.As I ha=e said !esterda!, I shall not add an! thing toda! in the regard

of inter'retation.

There is a silence in the court for a moment as time hath stand still , and

'ast 'resent and future all o=erla' and su'erim'ose one an other. >one was

e#'ecting that Imam Ahmad an orthodo# could re'l! an e#'ert of debates as

such. -ut then a sound broke the timeless ice as if the time continued to Zow

after a timeless 'ause.

7adi%6 Thou re'liest as e#'ected.-ut If 7ura%n is (ncreated then is there is

an! e=idence from 7uran or %adi%s which stateth that 7ur2a%n is (ncreated.

Are 7ur2a%n and $Ah%adis2 not silent in regard to (ncreatedness "f Al7ur2a%n9.hat thou sa!st on this issue9.

Imam looking at the Monarch%6 H"n what basis doest thou summon me toagree with them, and dost not summon them to agree with me if theS'eech "f 8eit! and the Ah:adi:s of is Pro'het are silent on this issue.9 Allthe! ha=e is an inter'retation which the! do ha=e some ,fabricated andconcocted. The! onl! do ha=e an o'inion which the! ha=e some how oEered.Inter'retations and "'inions ma! diEer."ne ha=e e5ual rights to oEer analternati=e inter'retation or a ri=al o'inion.If thou thinkest that these are +ust o'inion then thou ha=e no right to force

others to acce't Mu3tailite o'inions and inter'retations.Mu3tas%im underastands Imam arguments and this was sensed b! Se=eralMu3tailahs in the court.

7adi Abu 8a=ud Looking at Mu3tasam .

7adi%

It is useless to discuss the matter in this wa!.

A Mu3taili Scholar%6It is all our fault. e is being debated since he was )rst

arrested. -uring this time he learned our arguments and wa!s of arguments,

and de=iced their anti4arguments. That is the onl! reason he a''eareth to be

in=incible in debates with us.

7ad%i% %6Please allow me to take a diEerent a''roach.


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Mutasam. Thou ma!st%6

7adi Abu 8a=ud%6 >ot all Attributes are alike. There hath been Abrogation in

Some erses "f 7uran in the life time of ol! Pro'het but there is no

Abrogation in 8i=ine "mniscience.

anbal %6 Some &haracterstics "f 8i=ine Attributes ma! diEer from Attribute

to Attribute but Their basic >ature "f (ncreati=it! and (ncreatedness is the

same. If 7uran is an Attribute "f 8eit! then It is (ncreated and (nmade, and

if it is &reated or made then it is not a 8i=ine Attribute. 7ur2an is in 8i=ine

*nowledge , 8oeth abrogation in =erses im'lieth Abrogation in 8i=ine

*nowledge. If not then th! theor! of Abrogation doeth not e#'lain the

Abrogation.Thou ma!st reconsider th! theor! once again.

-arghuth%6 7adi Abu 8a=ud , It a''eareth that anbal is going to gi=e us a

tough time. e is causing doubts in the belief of &reatedness "f 7uran. If he

continueth in this wa! he shall succeed in making doubts in out belief. Thou

ma!st take some other a''roach if thou canst.

7adi% Kes, I initiall! thought that anbal would be an eas! target but he is a

diFcult 'erson.

7adi looking at anbalV

7adi% hat do thou sa! about Iesous Messiah.Is e >ot ord "f 8eit!.

If he is &reated then 7uran is &reated since 7uran is a S'eech of 8eit! and A

s'eech consisteth of words.%6

anbal% Iesous is a Pro'het and a uman -eing. e is not an Attribute "f

8eit! as 'er Islamic belie=es and articles of faith.

7adi Abu 8a=ud%6 -ut he is said to be ord "f 8eit!.

anbal%6 The ord ord in the case of Iesous the Messiah is a a''ellation or

a meta'hor or a )gure or a cognomen .A word In =irtual meaning. -ut 7uran

is not a S'eech in =irtual meaning but in real meaning. Iesous Messiah is not

an Attribute "f 8eit! but a Pro'het "f 8eit! and a uman -eing as according

to >ecessar! articles of ?aith , there fore the word Hword3 is inter'retable

.8ost thou consider 7ur2a%n as a S'eech "f 8eit! in the =irtual meaning and


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not in the real meaning9 This Mu3tailite 8ogma im'lieth ahmite 8ogma

that 7ur2a%n is not the 8i=ine s'eech in the real meaning.

anbal Looking at Mu3tasam%6

8ost thou belie=e that 7uran is a Pro'het and a uman -eing 98ost thou not belie=e that Iesous is a Pro'het and a uman -eing9.

If !ou Mutailites themsel=es diEerentiate between Iesous:Ma! Peace "f

8eit! -e ('on im; HISA/ and 7uran then wh! Kou use this argument

against "rthodo# circle "f Islam.

0=er! one was silent.

Mu3tasam was furious against the 'owerful refutation b! Imam Ahmad -inanbal. Perha's the onl! 'arts of the debate he could understand more

correctl! then 'olemical and theological 'arts.

7adi Abu 8a=ud%6 If 7uran is not a creation then it is the &reater, since there

is no middle .

anbal%6 "ne who belie=eth that there is onl! one (ncreated can sa! such a

thing. >ot "nl! 8eit! but is Attributes are (n4&reated. Law of 0#cluding the

Middle is not =alid in this case.

Abu 8a=ud2s fur! is seen on his face.e recognieth that Law "f 0#clusion "f

Middle is =alid between a statement and its logical negation.

7adi Abu 8a=ud%6 &ali'hlook at his dith!ramb . e concocketh an answer

instantl! as if he hath antici'ated all the debate 'rior to the time.

Shu3aib%6 anbal it is strange that thou art able to stand against such

arguments but the 8ogma thou art ad=ocating is incorrect be!ond doubt."

anbal Thou hast 'ro=ed that "rthodo# can debate which I initiall! doubted.

-arghuth% Looking at Abu 8a=ud% e is wasting the time of the court creating

more 'roblems then e#'ected.

Mu3tas%im %6I encumber thee to take )nal a''roach so that I ma! not wast

m! time on anbal.


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7adi Abu 8a=ud looking at the court T0> AT Mu3tas%im claimeth%6

7adi%6@reat &ali'h, >ow I 'resent the most 'owerful Argument we ha=e

made s'eciall! for him last night, which I ha=e not 'resented Ket.

ow e=er before its 'resentation , I once again ask anbal that if headmiteth that he is unable to under stand the 'roblem, he ma! be gi=en the

bene)t of doubt.

anbal%6 I sa! 7uran is (ncreated S'eech "f 8eit! and (ncreated 8i=ine

Attribute.

7adi% "nce again thou hast made the doubt to ceased, and conse5uentl! the

bene)t of it.

Imam Ahmad%6 7uran is (ncreated 8i=ine Attribute "f S'eech be!ond an!

doubt and sus'icion .

M(3TASIM% hat thou saist " anbal9

anbal%6 -ring some e=idence from ords of Pro'het or e=en ords of

&om'anion "f Pro'het to 'ro=e that 7uran is a &reation.

7adi% I Must deduce it from the fundamental belie=es and Articles "f ?aith "f

Islam.

anbal% Thou ma!st attem't to.

7adi looking at Mutasim%6 >ow @reat &ali'h I must 'resent the most

'owerful argument rather 'roof of the belief.

Looking at Imam Ahmad -in anbal.%

8ost thou belie=e that 8eit! is the &reator "f All Things.

SAI26TI>@,PL2ASKA%2/

Imam % AFrmati=e and &on)rmed. 8eit! Saith so in Ra3d%1Q $ALL4u

*A%LI7 &(LL SAI2/7adi%6 Is 7uran a Thing.

anbal%6If thou wanteth to, thou ma!st 'redicate this word to 7uran. The

word ma! be used in diEerent meanings de'ending on conte#s/.


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7adi Abu 8A(8% If 8eit! is the &reator "f All Things and 7uran is a Thing

then 8eit! is the &reator "f 7uran, and If 8eit! is a &reator "f 7uran the

7uran is the &reation "f 8eit!.

Mu3tasimV hat a 'owerful argument. -! all m! knowledge , I can Swear

('on 8eit! that it is irrefutable argument.

7ad%i Abi 8uad%6An irrefutable refutation of "rthodo# and their 8ogma of

(ncreatedness "f 7ur2a%n Sir.

Mu3tas%im% Self of Mine understaneth it clearl!.

7adi% " anbal thou canst not esca'e from this argument. So thou must

belie=e in the &reation of 7uran right now. >ow thou hast no o'tion but to

sa! 7uran is a &reation and a &reature "f the 8eit!.

anbal doeth not 'a! an! attention to the remarks of Mu3tasim.

anbal%68ost thou not belie=e that 0=er! Self Shall die.*(LL( >A?ASI>

8A%2I7AT(L MA(T/

7adi% Kes it is so ,but this is an irrele=ant answer.

Imam >eglecting 7adi2s comments 'roceedeth%

anbal% 8oeth 8eit! >ot use the word Self for imself. A K(%A8 8I

R(*(M(LLA( >A?SA(/

7adi% Kes but what this hath to do with the discussion.

Imam%6 8ost thou deduce that 8eit! Shall 8ie9

There is a 'in dro' silence in the court. 0=en Mu3tasim is shocked b!

hearing this counter argument. This sort of argument he understandeth.

7adi, Shu3aib,-arghuth, the committee of Mu3tailah scholars and Mu3tasam

ALL AR0 s'eechless. >o one hath e#'ected this counter argument AL AA-

AL ILUAMI/. The! were all shocked once again as before. -ut this time It as

anbal imself who broke the timeless ice.

anbal%6 As !ou Mu3tailite make 0#ce'tion of 8i=ine Self when !ou sa! All

Sel=es Shall die, I make an 0#ce'tion for the 8i=ine S'eech when I sa! All

things are &reated. These Mu3tailites are unable to distinguish between

8i=ine Attributes and &reatures of 8eit!.


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A M(RMARRI>@ -0@A> I> T0 &"(RT.

Shu3aib to 7ad%i % >e#t he is going to argue that if All things are created then

8eit! imself is &reated other wise There is an e#ce'tion. hat a logic of

0#ce'tion. e ha=e taken the "rthodo# leader Imam/ as an eas! task !et he

hath 'ro=ed to be the most diFcult task.

7ad%i% %6 :In an a'ologitical wa! 'roceedeth;. hat I mean is H0=er! Thing

"ther than 8eit!9 Thou hast anal!sed m! argument and found an a''earent

Zaw in it. >ow I re'eat m! argument inserting the word $"ther2. An! thing

other than 8eit! is a &reation "f 8eit!.

Imam Ah%mad -in %anbal%68i=ine Attributes are not "ther than 8eit!. 0=en

Mu3tailis belie=e that 8i=ine "mniscience is not other than 8eit!. The same

is true for 8i=ine S'eech.If Mu3taili theologians are not considering 7ur2an

as a 8i=ine Attribute e=en then the! ha=e to consider it in 8i=ine"mniscience.So atleast in regard to 8i=ine "mniscience 7ur2an is neither

&reated nor "ther than 8eit!.If it is said that 7ur2an is not in 8i=ine

*nowledge then 8i=ine *nowledge ceaseth to be "mniscience. I now reword

m! argument. If 8i=ine *nowledge is 0ternal and "mniscience then 8eit!

Must >ecessaril! alwa!s ha=e known the 7urXa[n. So 7ur2an is 0ternal

atleast in regard to

8i=ine "mniscience.If it is said that 8i=ine *nowledge is a &reation then this

is A -LASPAMK.

7adi%6 @reat &ali'h this man is causing and creating more 'roblems then

estimated.

After all he hathsome how learned to use Logical and Theological arguments.

"ur continual debates a''eare to ha=e com'elled him to gi=e more thoughtto the refutation of our arguments and to reform orthodo#2s argumentslogicall! and theologicall!.

Mu3tas%am In an =oice full of fur!/ Thou call it 'roblem, he is causing

unsol=able 'arado#es and unanswerable conundrums.


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K(SI-(>AA ILLA MA *ATA-ALLA( LA>A.

A battle hath begun between the 'ride of Mu3tas%im and his mind. e seseth

that some thing is not going correct.

%anbal IS stri''ed of his shirt and 'laced between the 'osts.e adds thathe rebuked the cali'h, warning him against s'illing the blood of Muslims, andciting an a''ro'riate adis2.The te#t of %adis2 doeth worked to an e#tent.Again the &ali'h hesitated, butagain gi=eth in to the HMuXtailY[s,3who are cr!ing out that he is anunbelie=er.

T wice the cali'h left his TR">0 to remonstrate with the 'risoner.Seeing this Ish%a%5 bin $Ibra%him also resiumeth to reason with Imam onceagain. X(+a!f b.XAnbasa 'roddeth Imam with the hilt of his sword.At one 'oint XAbd al4Rah%ma%n bin $Ish%a5 stood b! and recited the names ofall the scholars who had alread! ca'itulated.Ibn %anbal onl! re'eated hisslogan.After each 'ause the Zogging ca'itulated.Ibn anbal onl! re'eatedhis slogan. The whi''ing is resumed.

At one 'ause%6anbal is being scourged ,which is continued for a long 'eriod of time.

A Police "Fcer Ishaa5 -in Ibrahim/% " anbal thou must shew some

s!m'ath! on th! self. h! dost thou acce't the belief that 7uran is a 8i=ine

&reature so that thou ma! be released .Thou ma! re=ert to th! belie=es

latter.

anbal% It is not +ust the 'roblem of a single 'erson. It is the collecti=e

'roblem of "rthodo# circle "f Islam. Seethere are 'eo'le standing with there

'ens and 'a'er +ust to record whether I stand )rm on the belief of(n&reati=it! "f ol! 7uran or acce't the eretical and (northodo# =iew of

7adi Abu 8a=ud and Mu3tailah . If I acc'eteth this belie=e I shall do a crime

which Shall be worst of all times. "n the other hand I ha=e not insurrected

against the Monarchs. -ut to kee' m! belie=es conser=ed I cannot make an!

change . Monarchs make terrorism not us.


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M0> R0P"RTI>@ T0 00>T%4

A man % Still standing.

An "ther Man%6 e doeth not feel 'ain because 8eit! is ith im.

An "ther Man% I ha=e seen e=er! thing now. 0=en the weakest 'erson candefeat the strongest of 'ersons.

An other 'erson% I belie=e 7uran is (ncreated. >ow if 0=en anbal himself

changeth his =iew, I shall &ontinue to belie=e that 7uran is (ncreated.

7uran is (ncreated e=en if anbal saith other wise.

anbal listening to the man%6

I am going now. >ow it is not a matter of anbal. hi''ing ma! com'el

anbal to change his =iew but not the (ltimate realit! TAT 7uran is(ncreated, SI>&0 IT IS IMM(TA-L0 A>8 (>&A>@0A-L0.

Men start lea=ing sa!ing among themsel=es%6 7ur2an is uncreated e=en if

%anbal saith otherwise.

"ut of the court the! dis'erse.

After each 'ause the Zogging is resumed, with the cali'h calleth out to thelictors to strike harder, ho'ing that he ma! co'ulate.-ut all in =ain. %anbaldoeth not co'ulate.Ibn

%anbal is e=entuall! struck o=er thirt! lashes and then Imam losethconsciousness.-! the time mental state ofMu3tas%im is grounded. In his de4e#ited state heonce again re=erteth to his initial attitude to wards Imam .

Mu3tas%im after his mental state was grounded from the e#ited state sa!th%6$I do not know what to do about that man.3hen Ibn anbal 'asseth outagain,after being struck thirt!4three or thirt!4four times, al4MuXtasim, whoa''eared frightened b! the thought of killing him.Mutas:iordered himtaken down.


56/67

The Te#t "f %adis2 hath done its work.Sensing the re=ersion of mental stateto its initial 'osition.

Ibn AbY% 8ua%d now urgeth that he be im'risoned again because he would stir

u' the 'eo'le.-ut the cali'h, Hwho hath regained his s!m'athies and 'itiesfor the Imam is une#itable this time.Mu3tas%im ordereth 'it! him to be released.

aru%n% Take him awa!.

"ne hi''er commeth close to Imam and saith in =er! low =olume of

=oice%6 " anbal% I am +ust a man in ser=ice. Please doeth not curse me. Ihi''ed thee but m! eart belea=eth % 7uran is (ncreated.

Mu3tas%im% e is 'unished for his crime. As this 'unishement hath been

e#ecuted and com'leted I think there is no need to keem him ca'tured, he

then ma! be isolated in his own house, and must be abstained from

sermons, addresses, lectures debates and discussions.

Imam is taken out f the court and courtiers and nobilities look at $Ima%m with

unbelie=eable e!es.

A &hristian Scholar murmers %6 The heart of Mu3tas%im is like that ofPontiousPilatus .

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Mu3tasim 8ieth%6

Mu3tas%im died in the !ear QG< A&. e ne=er asked an! thing about $Ima%m .

asi5 "n the Throne Reign %6QG


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his 'redecessor had done. $Imam is still enclosed in his house and not

'ermitted to deli=er lectures and sermons.

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T0 MARTKR "? -0A?ITI& ISI">.

In asi52s time there is an "rthodo# Scholar, nounl! Ahmad -in >as%r who

o'enl! 'reached that 7ur2an is (ncreated and beati)c ision "f 8eit! :i.e

ision "f 8eit! Shall occur/ after 8oom2s da! or 8a! of udgement.

e is called for a trial 'artiall! of his belief in (ncreati=it! "f Al 7uran and

'artiall! for the belief in 8i=ine ision. e is interrogated in the Ro!al &ourt

"f asi5.

asi5%6 It is re'orted that thou belie=e that 7uran is (ncreated and -eati)c

ision . It is e=en a greater Sin to belie=e that 8eit! Must -e Seen in after the

8i=ine udgement .

Ibn >asrbra=el!/% (ndoubtl! I do belie=e.

Thou belie=e that 8eit! &an Turn isible from the state of in=isibilit!.

Ibn >asr% I belie=e 8eit! Shall -e Seen ith &ertainit! after the @reat

udgement.

asi5 %6 "n what grounds.

Ibn >asr%6 The tradition re'orteth that the ol! Pro'het ath Said So.

asi5% Thou liest.

Ibn >asr >eglecting the might of the monarch/ %>o thou dost lie.

And there was a silence in the court and all the courtiers and nobilities were

silence o=er this une#'ected re'l!.asi5%6 I do den! to belie=e in a 8eit! ho &an -e Seen. Since isibilit! is

&annot be an Attribute "f 8eit!.

The ur! of Mu3taalite Scholars%6 e neither belie=e in -eati)c ision nor in

Theo'han!. So he must be killed and let his blood be u'on us.


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7adi Abu 8a=ud%6 It is lawful to *ill this 'erson for the sake of 8eit! himself.

asi5%6 -ring m! sword so that I be the onl! killer of this 'erson and no one

share the a''ortunit! to kill such a 'erson but onl! m! self.

ead "f Ibn >asr is cut of from the rest of his ol! -od! . is head isIMPAL08 in -ughdad and his bod! is im'aled inSurra Man Ra. The!

remained there for si# L(>AR !ears in that state/.

A-8(LLA -I> (MAR2 &ALL0>@0 T" 7A8I A-( 8A(8.

A S'eaker in the &ourt announces%

A man re5uesteth to a''ear in the court to the &ali'h as2i5.

asi5%6 ho is he9

A Man %6 Sir he is an "rthodo# scholar and 'erha's he commeth to co'ulateour =iew about 8 i=ine S'eech.

as2i5%6 Permition is granted. Let him enter in the court.

The Man 0ntereth

Abdullah-in (mar%6 Sir m! noun is Abdullah bin (mar.Sir I want to know

the truth about 7uran. -ut I ha=e some doubts about the &reatedness "f

7uran.

asi5 %6 7adi Abu 8a=id is here to answer all th! 8oubts. -ut for this reasonthou hath come to the court.

Abdullah%6 >ot onl! for this reason. There is an other one . That is if he is

unable to answer m! 5uestions and doubts then I ma! be allowed to

continue to belie=e in what I belie=ed so far.

asi5%6 I think he is able to answer thee.

Abdullah%6 I do ho'e that he is able to answer m! 5uestions. -ut If he

faileth then I ma! remain to b! belief that 7uran is >ot &reated.as2i5%6 I can not think for a single moment that he can fail, !et if he doeth

fail then I gi=e thee m! words of honor that thou shalt be allowed to lea=e in

'eace and thou ma!st continue to belie=e in what thou hast belie=e in 'ast.

ow e=er thou ma! not 'reach th! belie=es, thou ma!st belie=e what so e=er

thou hast belie=ed till now. Let me inform thee that


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In 'rinci'le I do agree that he can be defeated !et it is 'racticall! not

'ossible.I ha=e con)dence on him.

Abdullah%6 Let me ask him. Please let me allowed to ask.

asi5%6 Thou art.Abdullah%6 Art thou read! to answer m! doubts.

7adi%6 8oubts or 5uestions.

Abdullah%6 8oubts in form of 5uestions.

7adi%6 Then ask them and do not waste the time.

Abdullah% M! )rst 5uestion is %6Is 7ur2a%n &reated9

7ad%i% %6 Kes undoubtl!.

Abdullah%6 M! second 5uestion is, H8id the ol! Pro'het know 7uran is

&reated39

7ad%i% %6 Kes undoubtl!. A belief of ?aith and not known to Pro'het , it is

im'ossible.

It must be known to the ol! Pro'het imself.

Abdullah%6 Then m! third 5uestion is, h! did he not asked his ol!

&om'anions to belie=e In &reati=it! "f 7uran9

7adi Abu 8a=ud is silence as I? he is s'eechless for the last time in his life.

A-8(LLA looking at as2i5%6 Sir when ol! Pro'het ho according to Thee

knoweth that 7uran is &reated ne=er asked his &om'anions to belie=e in the

&reatedness "f 7uran then wh! did thou test 'eo'le.

hen Pro'het imSelf did not com'el his com'anions to belie=e in &reati=it!

"f 7uran wh! do !ou 'eo'le do it. 8ost thou know Islam more than the ol!Pro'het imself.

8ost 7adi Abi 8uad knoweth Islam more than the ol! Pro'het imself9

This line of argument worked well. Abdullah heareth as2i5 sa!ing%6

asi5%6 h! did I do a thing hich is not done b! the Pro'het imself9


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h!.9 h!9 Thou ma!st go I think I need some 'ri=ac!.

asi5 looking at the nobalities and courtiers%6 Theological discussions are

be!ond m! sco'e.-ut I know one thing. If this belie=e is so Im'ortant then

the ol! Pro'het must ha=e stated atleast once in his life time. The! are the

guardians and the kee'ers of the traditions and words of Pro'het. If Pro'hethath saith it onl! once the would ha=e recei=ed the re'ort of it as a tradition.

This meaneth that he was silent as if he did not know it. It can onl! be

e#'lained that this belief is not a 'art of the Religion.

Looking at 7ad%IV %6 I think I should go . Ma! the cout be ad+ourned .

A S'eaker%6 The cout is ad+ourned immediatel! as the &ali'h wanteth

'ri=ac!.

A T0"L"@I&AL "*0

In the 'ri=ac! asi5 demandeth for a oker to make some 'leasant moments.

oker%6 ?irst of all 'lease allow me to make condolence for some thing.

asi5% Thou art.

% M! condolence is for the ol! 7uran Itself.

athi5% Shocking% h!9 ath 7uran 8ied9 hat kind of oke it is9


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% @reat &ali'h Although 7uran is li=ing at 'resent but sooner or later It Shall

8ie.

asi5% hat thou s'eakiest9.

% Pardon me Sir, -ut Is 7uran >ot a &reation9 If &reation then Tem'oral. AndIt it is then it shall either die some da! in future. Since all &reations Must die

some how and some da!. If not die then annihilated. Since e=er! &reation

whether li=ing or not must 'erish some da!.

% Art thou a oker or a Theologian9 Lea=e me alone. I had asked for thee to

amuse me after all these mind aching theological 'roblems , and thou hast

ached m! mind more then a theologian. Lea=e me alone for 8eit!2s sake

lea=e me alone.

A @R0AT &A>@0

>e#t da! in the court.

% Toda! m! )rst order that is to be issued that 7adi Abu 8a=ud hast been

discussing a theological 'roblem which is unnecessar! and I am not going to

continue this an! longer. ow e=er what so e=er is done in the 'ast is

considered to be =alid. -ut e=en if 7uran is &reated, let 0 AR0 >" ">0S to

enforce this belief u'on others.

7adi doeth not sa! a word and ste'eth down from his 'osition and lea=eth

the court after this disgrace.

asi5%6There shall not be an! 'unishment on the matter of religion and

belie=es. hat m! 'redecessors, ancestors, and b! m! self did in 'ast, shall

not be re'eated b! me and m! siblings in future. Ket I do belie=e that 7ur2an

is a &reation but from now on there shall be no such tests in the court.

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8eath of as2i5%6

as2i5 died in the !ear QG1 A&. is successor is Muta=akkil QG1A&4QGOA&/.

-ut he is an "rthodo# in heart. Slowl! and graduall! he is tr!ing to u'root

the Mu3tailahs2 inZuences in the court. e is working wisel! to get rid of


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ot Per Se

Subsistent. The! Subsist in 8i=ine 0ssence.


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At an other 'lace%6

M%6 If 7uran is &reated then 8eit! &annot iolate is Promise since it is

Toutological to the claim 8eit! &an make a ?alse Promise.

"/ 8eit! and Attributes "f 8eit! are (n&reated and 0ternal, but not theRelati=e Attributes of the Attributes. Thou hast to make a distinction between

Attributes "f 8eit! and Attributes "f Attributes "f 8eit!. "mni4S'eech is a

8i=ine Attribute, do not confuse Relati=e Attributes of 8i=ine Attributes with

the 8i=ine Attributes themsel=es.

At an other 'lace%6

M/ 8eit! &annot been since It de)eth laws of ision.

"/ Laws of ision &an be &hanged b! the 8eit! imself.

M/ >ecessar! &ondition of some one to be =isible is to be )nite and 8eit! is

In)nite.

"/ There is no such >ecessar! &ondition. 0=en this is not a SuFcient

&ondition.

M/ Then what is the >ecessar! &ondition.

"/ M! task is to dis'ro=e the &laims that &or'orealit! and ?initeness are the

>ecessar! &onditions for the 8i=ine isibilit!. -ut I must e=en tr! to dis'ro=e

an! attem't to 'ro=e them as SuFcient &onditions as well. >ow -ring th!arguments and Pro=es.

M/ In)nite &annot be seen b! ?inite.

"/ Th! 'roof of th! claim is the claim it self and this is a fallac! of worst

kind.

At Some "ther Place%6

M/ All things are &reated b! 8eit! and 7uran is a thing. So It is also &reated

b! the 8eit!.

"/ Thou ma!st be res'onsed in two wa!s%6

?irst Mutailah them sel=es do not belie=e that All things are &reated b!

8eit!. Since the! do not belie=e that uman and in Acts are &reated b!


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8eit!. If human acts are uncreated then 8i=ine s'eech deser=eth to be

uncreated 'rimaril!.

Second% If all things are &reated b! 8eit! then 8eit! imself Is a thing. So

8eit! is &reated b! imself. -ut 8eit! is (ncreated >either &reated b!

imself nor b! an! one else.

Through out the Muslim world Mu3tailah are challenged b! Scholars of

Ahlussunnah . @one are the da!s when Mu3tailah used to use rational

arguments against "rthodo#. "rthodo# hath begun to res'onse them ,

reason b! reason,argument b! argument,logic b! logic and rationalit! b!

rationalit!.

Imam Ahmad -in nbal hath become a s!mbol of orthodo# circle. 0=en

subsects of "rthodo# who disagree with im res'ect im as one of the

greated hero of Ahlussunnah.

LAST ATT0MPT -K A Mu3tailah%6

Imam is dead. A Mu3tailah maketh a last attem't to distort his teachings.

e writeth some heretical =iews and 'uteth it near his bod!.

e is e#'osed. Those who see the 'a'er sa!%6

e 8o *now his belie=es with certaint! that this is a concoction. anbal

doeth not re5uire an! 'roof for his credibilit! . It is +ust a single 'age . If

thousands of such 'ages are found the! are certainl! false ,concoction andfabrication.

Perha's the greatest credit of %anbal is that he doeth not re5uire a 'roof,

RAIT0R\..e is a Proof in imself.

anbal &ontra Mundum

0>8

TIS IS A PR"T" 0RSI"> "? T0 PLAK . ?(RT0R IMPR"0M0>TS AR0

P"SSI-L0. A(T"R.


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