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Clothes and the Fallacy of Apostolic Tradition in the Eastern Orthodox Church

This is a little bit of a straw man, but I was thinking about it, so I thought I would post it to see what your thoughts are.

The Eastern Orthodox Church claims that they hold to the traditions of the Apostles, and that we should listen to Clothesand the Fallacy of Apostolic Tradition in the Eastern Orthodox Churchthem because they are pure and undefiled from the world. But is that true? One simple way to show that Orthodox tradition has changed is to take a look at the clothes that theirpriests are required to wear because they are not the same as they have always been. In fact, they have changed quite a bit(and even are different now based on region), [1] and few of these ornate clothes or their symbolism really existed untilafter Christianity was ªstandardizedº during the age of Constantine.[2] Far from being an Apostolic tradition, they made uptheir own tradition, and now hold to it as though it was directly from God. Their clothes are based on the tradition of men,not of God. If they can't even get their clothes right, why should we believe they have anything else right?

ªCHRISTIAN CHURCH VESTMENTS were not inherited from any other religion, but gradually evolved out of the ordinary dress ofthe elite in the Roman Empire. In those first days of Christianity the clergy presided in their ordinary clothing, althoughno doubt more costly and beautiful garments were used. The Church, therefore, did not invent vestments. Instead it simplyretained some of the gracious and ample vesture once worn by the upper classes.As time went on and fashions changed,the Church kept the original styles, thus reflecting a feeling common to most religions that special clothing be used forceremonial occasions.º[3]

I don't claim to have everything right, so saying I have one part of my theology wrong doesn't hurt me, but ratherwould make me want to search the Scriptures more so that I may test to see whether my belief is based on truth or not.But because the Orthodox Church claims they have everything right, since I can prove they don't have their clothes right(their tradition has changed, and yet they require their priests to conform to wearing certain vestments, or specialclothing), I can prove that they are false in their claim of pure Apostolic tradition. If certain clothes are required bytradition, someone in the Orthodox Church is wrong, and they should find out who (is it the Greeks, the Russians?),so that they can return to the truth. But I believe they are wrong altogether ± th

e Apostles did NOT wear the same ornateclothes that they now wear,[4] and neither should we be required to.

[1] ªOrthodoxy's Liturgical Vestment Colors,º http://aggreen.net/vestment/liturgical_colors.html.

[2] ªThe rise of Byzantium and the close relationship of the Church and State hada marked influence on the further development of Orthodox vestments which have essentially remained in the same form up to this day The mitre, for example,-worn by all those in the episcopal office-is modeled after the crown of the Byzantin


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e emperors. .It is highly unlikely that it was modeled after the Old Testament mitre since it was not adopted by bishops of the Church until the 15th century.º - ªThe Symbolism of Vestments,º http://www.roca.org/OA/32/32f.htm.

[3] ªByzantines.net - Byzantine Liturgical Vestments,º http://www.byzantines.net/moreinfo/vestments.htm.

[4] ªAs time moved on, and fashions changed, the dress of the priests and clericsof the Church did not and gradually became more and more distinct from secular fashions.º Shawn Tribe, ªThe New Liturgical Movement: On the Origins and Developmentof Vestments. Part I: Origins,º http://thenewliturgicalmovement.blogspot.com/2006/07/on-origins-and-development-of.html.

This entry was posted on February 1, 2008 at 9:28 am and is filed under The Eastern Orthodox Church, The Origin of EasternOrthodox Clothes, The Origin of Vestments, Tradition verses Scripture, Vestments, eastern orthodox vestments. You can followany responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response,or trackback from your own site.9 Responses to ªClothes and the Fallacy of Apostolic Tradition in the Eastern Orthodox Churchº

1. Lee Says:

February 2, 2008 at 10:37 am

Very interesting! We'll see what develops here¼

2. Chara W. Says: May 8, 2008 at 6:57 am

Thank you so much for posting this. My sister announced recently that shewas leaving the church we grew up in for

the Orthodox church and so far we haven't really found a lot of ways to talk to her about it since we have very

little common ground (we grew up believing that the Bible was the ultimate authority, not tradition). Any other

information you have about the Orthodox church might be really helpful.

3. phil Says: May 12, 2008 at 7:10 am

It is so very easy to be a frog in the kettle who is unaware of change. The vestments show a deeper blindness to the

changes one makes over time. It is clear the Orthodox of today are really much different from the apostles, who had

neither silver nor gold nor were interested in regal vestments showing their honor and grandeur.

Calling the men ªfatherº and proclaiming some ªpatriarchsº further evolves from t

e words of Jesus in Matthew 23:7-10.We are often blind to our own baggage.

4. MG Says: May 24, 2008 at 3:04 am

Nathan and Phil±

As you make these arguments, are you keeping in mind the distinction between the *content* of an idea or teaching,


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and the *way that content is articulated or expressed*? Do you think that once this distinction is introduced,

this challenges the validity of your argument?

Also, Phil±

Could you clarify, are you saying that Christian leaders shouldn't be called ªfatherº or use ªfather/sonº language to

describe their relationships?

Thanks guys

5. nathanwells Says: June 6, 2008 at 11:21 am

Hi MG,

Yes, I only am pointing out that while Eastern Orthodoxy claims to do things the same way the early church did,

they have actually morphed quite a bit. The clothes actually have a really big part in the service, as do all the

ornaments, gold, etc. and it just shows that none of that existed in the early church and yet the Eastern Orthodox

puts high value on it. Why do they put such high value on something that

has nothing to do with actual early churchtradition? Because, I believe, they are the traditions of men, made up after the apostles death.

6. Orthodox Individual Says: June 11, 2008 at 8:58 am

Dear Phil,

You are right about one thing, Christianity is not the same as it used tobe. If you need a Christianity that is

closer to the one when the Apostles lived then you would take off your shoes and not have any exra clothes with you

except for one cloak and one staff. You would not care about your clothes or anyone elses for that matter becuaseevery day could be your last. Your only care would be to spread the word

of God and to help those who need you themost.

How far away we all live from this reality? I constantly think to myself.

Perhaps a rebellion from within us is needed?

http://www.deathtotheworld.com/articles/002/lasttrue/index.html

Regards

Orthodox Individual

7. MG Says: June 19, 2008 at 6:00 pm

Nathan±

You wrote:


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ªWhy put such high value on something that has nothing to do with actual early church tradition?º

I think this is the same as asking ªwhy put such high value on the English language, considering that the early church

didn't use it?º The content is the same in an Orthodox service as it has always been; its the way the content is

expressed that is different. Similarly the content of the Bible is the same now as it always was; it is now

expressed in many different languages. Cultural contextualization shapes the way content is articulated, but does

not change the content. So if vestments are part of cultural contextualization, and they articulate the same content

as is always taught by the Church (ie. the priest is an image of Christ, an object of respect because of his

holiness) then this seems valid.

If we make this distinction, then the fact that today's vestments are not what they always were does not necessarily

imply that Orthodoxy has changed or corrupted Church Tradition. So if my distinction is valid (and I think that the

example of bible translations establishes this) then I don't think the accusation that Orthodoxy teaches the

traditions of men is sound. At least, you would have to prove that the t

ypes of garments worn are part of thecontent of Christian teaching, not just the way it is articulated. But it seems obvious that clothing-types are part

of the ªformº, not the ªmatterº.

Here's something I've been wondering: do you think that if Protestantism is true, that each person's interpretation of

the Bible is just as fallible and non-authoritative as everyone else's? (bearing in mind that some people use better

exegetical methodology, and hence have a higher probability of correctly interpreting ± which is not, however,

the same as authority) If so, how would this relate to the accusation that Orthodoxy teaches the traditions of men?

8. Orthodox Says: July 5, 2008 at 12:19 pm

Dear Brother in Christ, You do raise valid points.First of all, I would like to acknowledge, thatthe traditions of the Orthodox church did

change slightly over the course of the years. The way Divine Liturgy isperformed has probably slightly changed,

Like you say, the dress of priesthood probably changed. However, I don't see this in a negative way. As Orthodoxy spread between different countries, an interaction between

the faithful and the local environment created different local tradition

s. What is important, is that Orthodoxtradition is holy, it promotes repentance, it glorifies God.

9. Kim Says: July 18, 2008 at 8:37 am

You might consider doing more research into what the Orthodox believe regarding tradition (things they do that don't

really impact the doctrine of the church) and Tradition (the Faith handed down from the Apostles). The clothes that


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the priest wear are not part of the Tradition and aren't essential to theApostolic faith. That things have changed

in the world since the time of the apostles is evident, including the clothes that people wear and the way they talk.

The basis of Orthodox apostolic tradition isn't based on some rigid, legalistic argument that every single detail

of the Church has remained unchanged (I mean, they use cars to drive around in now and build churches of modern

building materials, does that mean their teachings are false?).

The vestments and other beautiful items inside Orthodox churches are not part of the belief system, they're a tool

that believers use to adorn the churches out of love. Just as hanging achild's drawing on your refrigerator doesn't

change the nature of the food within, decorations inside the church don'tchange the church's understanding of the

nature of Christ.

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