Rosenberg, Benjamin | Testimony transcript

8/12/2019 Rosenberg, Benjamin | Testimony transcript

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Transcript of the Testimony of BenjaminRosenberg

Date:November 6, 2013Volume:I

Case: In Re: Joplin Critical Investigation

Printed On: November 13, 2013

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc.Phone: 417-358-4078

Fax: 417-451-1114

Email:[email protected]:


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Benjamin Rosenberg In Re: Joplin Critical Investigation

417-358-4078Holliday Reporting Service, Inc.

Page 1

IN RE: JOPLIN CRITICAL INVESTIGATION

SWORN STATEMENT OF

BENJAMIN ROSENBERG

Taken on Wednesday, November 6, 2013, from 6:07 p.m. to 6:46

p.m., at the law offices of Juddson H. McPherson, LLC, 626

S. Byers, in the City of Joplin, County of Jasper, State of

Missouri, before

SHARON K. ROGERS, C.C.R.650,

a Certified Court Reporter and a Notary Public within and

for the County of Jasper, and State of Missouri.


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Page 2

APPEARANCES

MR. THOMAS E. LORAINE

Loraine & Associates, LLC

4075 Osage Beach Pkwy., Suite 300

Osage Beach, MO 65065

[email protected]


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Page 3

S T I P U L A T I O N

IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED that this Sworn Statement may be

taken by steno-mask type recording by SHARON K. ROGERS, a

Certified Court Reporter, and afterwards reduced into

typewriting.

It is further stipulated that the signature of the

witness is hereby waived, and that said Sworn Statement of

said witness shall be of the same force and effect as

though said witness had read and signed Sworn Statement.


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Page 4

I N D E X

Page/Line

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE . . . 5-4

E X H I B I T S

Exhibit #A. . . . . . . . 5-9

Advice of Rights

Note: Exhibits in separate binder

(sic) - typed as spoken

(ph.) - phonetic


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Page 5

1 BENJAMIN ROSENBERG

2 Having been first duly sworn and examined,

3 testified as follows:

4 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE:

5 Q. Doctor, would you please state your name and

6 your occupation for me?

7 A. Benjamin Rosenberg, I'm a pediatric dentist.

8 Q. Dr. Rosenberg, for our purposes you've read

9 Exhibit #A?

10 A. I have.

11 Q. And agreed to abide by its contents?

12 A. I have.

13 Q. And you understand that you're giving this

14 statement to us under oath and of your own

15 free will?

16 A. I do.

17 Q. Dr. Rosenberg, you have read my contract?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And you know what I'm investigating here?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. And to remind you I'm talking about three

22 things primarily, although some other things

23 have come up, the conduct of Mayor Pro Tem

24 Scearce involving renting a building of

25 bookmaking, and of course that's some 20


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Page 6

1 years ago and something about an FBI

2 investigation, number two was fact and

3 circumstance surrounding the release of

4 information and the taking of something, a

5 note off Manager Rohr's desk, and the third

6 thing is Mr. Woolston's or Four State Homes'

7 or Charlie Kuehn's or any of the related

8 entities, and/or the master developer

9 Wallace-Bajjali in respect to the purchase,

10 sale, or leasing of real estate for current

11 or future developments. Those are my tasks.

12 A. Correct.

13 Q. And to that end your name has come up and

14 I've been told that I should talk with you.

15 So I am trying to take everybody that will

16 walk through this door and try to get as

17 complete and thorough as I can, trying to get

18 rid of some of these issues for the City.

19 A. All right.

20 Q. And that's what we're doing here. So to that

21 extent tell me when you were elected to the

22 board?

23 A. Approximately six years - six years ago in

24 April. I can't remember what year it was,

25 but April will be my sixth year.


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Page 7

1 Q. Is that more than one term?

2 A. Yes, I'm almost midway through my second

3 term.

4 Q. So they're four year terms?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And you've not been Mayor yet?

7 A. No, nor will I ever be.

8 Q. Okay. I don't want to go any further with

9 that.

10 A. I don't want to be Mayor.

11 Q. Okay. To the extent that you have requested

12 as one of my employers to have these matters

13 run what, if anything, do you know about any

14 of these issues? And let's start with Mayor

15 Pro Tem Scearce. What can you contribute to

16 that?

17 A. I know very little.

18 Q. You've heard interviews, I suppose, I guess?

19 A. Yeah, Bill and I are close personal friends.

20 I was in his wedding, we've remained close

21 personal friends since the mid 70's. Until

22 this all came up I didn't know he even rented

23 to anybody. But since then obviously I've

24 heard that he rented a space on 15th Street

25 when he had a building over there to some


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Page 8

1 people who turned out to be local bookies.

2 Do I know they were local bookies? Not until

3 I read it in the paper. I thought other

4 people were the local bookies. I don't bet

5 so it wouldn't make me any difference, but

6 that's all I know. Would Bill participate in

7 it? I don't think so.

8 Q. But nevertheless you do understand this was a

9 separate building, it was not where he was at

10 the time?

11 A. Correct.

12 Q. It was its own building?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. And I have interviewed Bill and I have

15 interviewed Mr. Woolston and --

16 A. I would tell you that it's something that

17 happened a long time ago and I don't see how

18 it's germane to the ethics on the Council.

19 Now that's my opinion, but I want to wait on

20 your report. I'm trying to be fair.

21 Q. All right. Having said that let's talk a

22 little bit about the second issue. The

23 second issue is this release of information

24 on Mr. - I'm having a little trouble

25 pronouncing that.


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Page 9

1 A. Scearce. Like it's scarce.

2 Q. Yeah, Mr. Scearce having a handwritten note

3 and it being stolen off Manager Rohr's desk

4 and it's in his handwriting, what do you know

5 about that?

6 A. I know there was a note. I've been told that

7 Mr. Scearce is protecting the whistle blower,

8 that he did not take it off his desk. I

9 don't believe Bill would do something like

10 that. I know there's bad blood between the

11 City Manager and Mr. Scearce. Mr. Scearce

12 tends to check up on the City Manager all of

13 the time. In other words if you don't dot

14 your I's and cross your T's Bill will catch

15 you. He's the type of Council person that

16 pays a lot of attention, spends a lot of time

17 looking up things, making phone calls, and

18 Mr. Rohr is not the type person that wants

19 anyone to check up on him. He's a very

20 dominant figure. He rules - and I'm one of

21 the ones that wanted him fired, too. He

22 rules by intimidation and fear. I think if

23 the truth were known and there were

24 confidentiality most of the City employees

25 would like to see him gone. But anyway,


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Page 10

1 Billy speaks his peace. And I'll quote what

2 I said in the paper, every Council needs a

3 Bill Scearce, you don't need two.

4 Q. All right. In regards to the third item

5 there's been a request for some kind of

6 investigation on --

7 A. Mr. Woolston.

8 Q. -- Mr. Woolston.

9 A. That's my request.

10 Q. Okay. That is your request?

11 A. Yes, sir. I made the motion.

12 Q. All right. That includes comments about

13 Wallace-Bajjali?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. It includes Four State Homes?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. It includes Charlie Kuehn?

18 A. Yes, he owns Four State Homes.

19 Q. And I guess any items that are collateral to

20 that I feel are within my purview.

21 A. All right. May I make a statement?

22 Q. Make a statement.

23 A. Mr. Woolston was a Mayor, he was Mayor during

24 our tornado. He's very close to Mark Rohr.

25 If I look at the votes he always votes with


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1 Mark Rohr. If Mark wants something Woolston

2 is always there. He was a real estate agent,

3 worked for a real estate company here as a

4 salesman, and he possesses knowledge that

5 even I don't know about what's going to

6 happen in the real estate business and

7 certain properties. I was asked to come to a

8 meeting one Sunday about a year ago, maybe a

9 little longer. A group in the neighborhood

10 wanted to form a neighborhood group, they

11 told me. They asked me to come. I can't

12 remember the lady's name, they own a company

13 called Twister Safe here in Joplin. So I

14 went. I thought they were going to be

15 interested in forming what we call a CID,

16 Community Improvement District, or an NID,

17 Neighborhood Improvement District, and I was

18 going to tell them the steps they would go

19 through and I thought it was a good idea to

20 meet with the neighbors and have this. Well,

21 it deteriorated and it wasn't long - Woolston

22 and I were both there and it wasn't long

23 before they were jumping all over Woolston.

24 They were very angry, many at the neighbors,

25 and I defended Mr. Woolston. He had every


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1 right to buy property, he's a real estate

2 agent. Well, then things began to take

3 another turn. All of a sudden Mr. Woolston

4 is now representing Charlie Kuehn, purchasing

5 property for Charlie in this disaster area. I

6 can't prove it, but what I think was

7 happening from the complaints I'm getting was

8 Woolston is buying the property as distressed

9 residential property for his employer, Mr.

10 Kuehn. Mr. Kuehn then flips it, and we all

11 knew this was going to happen, flips it into

12 commercial property and turns it over to

13 Wallace-Bajjali for ten or twenty times the

14 profit. So you lose your house, I go say I'm

15 Benji Rosenberg and I work for Pro 100 Real

16 Estate Agency and I would like to buy your

17 property. You're not moving back to town,

18 you've left Joplin, God knows where you went,

19 but I'd like to buy your property from you.

20 It's a distress lot, you know. Normally lots

21 are going for $7,000.00 to $10,000.00 to

22 $15,000.00, but I'm going to give you

23 $25,000.00. They sell the property only to

24 find out that Charlie Kuehn flipped it for

25 $100,000.00 or $150,000.00. Now these are


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1 the complaints I'm getting from people,

2 concerned citizens. I've heard from real

3 estate agents, I've heard from fellow

4 Councilmen, I've heard from citizens who sold

5 the property. And since Mr. Woolston was

6 kind enough to bring Mr. Scearce up we might

7 as well since we're paying you, we might as

8 well pay you to investigate Mr. Woolston,

9 too, and I also volunteered myself if anyone

10 wanted to investigate me.

11 Q. Nobody wanted to investigate you.

12 A. Nobody wanted to investigate me.

13 Q. I guess you're not very controversial.

14 A. I'm sort of (inaudible) and controversial.

15 Q. Well, you mentioned other real estate agents.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. You mentioned sellers.

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And you mentioned --

20 A. Other Council people.

21 Q. Yes, other Council people.

22 A. And former Council people.

23 Q. Okay. Can you provide me with any of these

24 names?

25 A. The former Council person is a former Mayor


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1 named Dandridge.

2 Q. Cheryl Dandridge, I've got her scheduled.

3 A. She's pretty fired up. She called me and I

4 said you need to talk to the investigator.

5 You don't need to tell me anymore. And I

6 said if you really have a gripe then anybody

7 who is licensed in the State of Missouri, you

8 can file a complaint with that licensing

9 agent and the law requires them to

10 investigate it. So I said I would suggest

11 that. The complaint, it has to do with her

12 daughter, and I can't remember if whether

13 it's Andrea or --

14 Q. Wilson or something?

15 A. I can't remember what his name is. I can

16 find out tomorrow. He's a manager for like a

17 Snak-Atak out on East 32nd almost to I-49.

18 Cheryl will tell you his name.

19 Q. Well, I'll be talking with Dandridge, not

20 tomorrow, but soon.

21 A. And that was one. Then that whole

22 neighborhood group was sort of fired up.

23 Q. Who was in that neighborhood group?

24 A. Well, let's see, what the hell is his name?

25 He used to own Allgeier-Martin, but it's not


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1 Allgeier-Martin, and he lives over on Murphy

2 Boulevard now. It will come to me in a

3 minute. I spoke with Morris Glaze, a fellow

4 Councilman, and he's had several complaints.

5 Q. Morris?

6 A. Morris Glaze. And he told me he, too, has

7 had complaints from mostly realtors. And

8 some of that may be just jealousy, I have no

9 idea, but Woolston now has left his

10 employment, he has his own company in cahoots

11 with Charlie Kuehn. Now Woolston has made a

12 statement that said since I didn't take a

13 commission I made no violation. Well, not

14 true, Mike. If you used the influence of

15 your office and knowledge that you have that

16 wasn't general knowledge to the public you

17 furthered yourself by now you own your own

18 real estate agency. Whether you took a

19 commission or not is immaterial. But again

20 these are all accusations and I have no

21 proof. Anyway Gary Garvin talked to me.

22 Q. Who is that?

23 A. He's a real estate agent here.

24 Q. Gary Garvin?

25 A. Garvin.


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1 Q. Is he available for me to talk to?

2 A. Sure, he owns a bar and a restaurant named

3 Fat & Happy's. All right, Gary was

4 interested in a property on I want to say

5 1801 or 1804 and it's this street - what the

6 hell is the name of that street? It's right

7 off this 20th Street corridor. And what they

8 wanted to do was extend this property for a

9 grocery store and some other stuff so that's

10 why they were interested in it. They wanted

11 to close the street off. Can't remember the

12 name of the street. But anyway there was a

13 Mrs. Marble or Marvel, and he was interested

14 in that property, and she left. She was nuts

15 anyway, but she left town. But all that

16 corridor he's been trying to buy property up

17 and down there. And the people right behind

18 that are the people who I went to their house

19 one day to listen to their complaints,

20 because there was some argument, rumors

21 floating around, of Woolston threatening use

22 of imminent domain. It turned out to be

23 totally false. He never did that. No one.

24 You know how things just sort of pop up.

25 Because only the City can take imminent


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1 domain.

2 Q. Yeah, I mean he certainly knows that is

3 available.

4 A. Well, but he also ought to know it's against

5 the law in the State of Missouri to use

6 imminent domain for economic gain. In other

7 words I can't take your property and sell it

8 to her so she can make money on it for

9 economics. If we need it for the common

10 good, streets, sewers, blah, blah, blah,

11 yeah, we use it all the time, but it turned

12 out that was definitely not true.

13 Q. How did you determine it was not true?

14 A. I traced every lead that I could find.

15 Nobody had ever heard of it.

16 Q. No sense telling me that then?

17 A. No, no. So anyway that's the accusations,

18 that he used the influence of his office to

19 gain an advantage in the real estate market

20 for himself and his employer.

21 Q. Have you noticed him abstaining from votes?

22 A. Just recently.

23 Q. He claims to have been doing that

24 continuously.

25 A. No, just recently continuously. I've been


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1 obviously recently.

2 Q. So I need to go back and look. I'll be

3 honest with you and I --

4 A. Everything he provided. I mean he brought

5 that up at a Council meeting, I'm providing

6 all this, but I don't think he abstained on

7 Dandridge's daughter property if that came

8 before us, you know, and I'm not sure - I

9 don't think he abstained before because he

10 would say since I have no financial interest

11 I'm not going to abstain, but then all of a

12 sudden he does have interest and he is

13 abstaining on everything that has to do with

14 Four State.

15 Q. Well, he told me in an interview here today

16 that he's been abstaining regularly on

17 anything and he's talking about historically

18 before any of these 19 pieces of property

19 came up.

20 A. I don't think so.

21 Q. So I need to check that out?

22 A. Yes. Brian can give you a lot of

23 information. He's got a good mind and he'll

24 remember some of that, but it also can be

25 looked up. You're going to kill the clerks


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1 with all your requests.

2 Q. I already am. I already am. Now can you sit

3 down in all your leisure time and provide me

4 any names and numbers and addresses? That

5 would be greatly helpful. I mean it's going

6 to be hard to dig these - it was hard for you

7 and you know everybody, and it's going to be

8 damn hard for me.

9 A. Yeah, I can't remember the name of that

10 street. You're from Joplin.

11 Q. We got somebody that's not from Joplin

12 because we don't want anybody from Joplin.

13 A. We can ask --

14 Q. Is any of this --

15 A. Yeah, let me see. I can tell you here in

16 just a second. Delaware. What you want to

17 look at are all these properties on Delaware,

18 okay? This is where the complaints are

19 coming. See, look, this is 18th right here,

20 and the lady that owns the house right there

21 was the one that invited me to come, okay?

22 But it's these properties that are the most

23 interesting.

24 Q. See, those are all part of what he's handed

25 out and given to you guys.


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1 just a very short time it became commercial

2 and went for lots of money. The interesting

3 thing to find out would be what they paid for

4 these lots and what Charlie Kuehn got for

5 these lots.

6 Q. And I'm working on that very allegation.

7 A. Charlie is going to be slick because, see,

8 now all of a sudden --

9 Q. Charlie just refused to testify.

10 A. Yeah, all of a sudden we find out that

11 Charlie now has a relationship with

12 Wallace-Bajjali, he's procuring property for

13 them. That's the problem, you know. But I

14 will get you the names of --

15 Q. I think before you work a lot I want you to

16 take a look at this and this because these

17 are the fires, this is one of the instruments

18 he had, these are the lot numbers that are

19 numbered on here.

20 A. Well, look, let me show you something.

21 Jennings-Brown, this they already knew, okay?

22 All Four State Homes, anything that went to

23 Four State Homes and then what happened to it

24 after that, or Kuehn, that would be the key

25 to whether Woolston was acting unethically or


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Page 22

1 not. Cheryl will come loaded. I mean she's

2 pretty angry. I didn't get into it any

3 deeper because I said it's already been

4 handled, you know, it will be investigated,

5 Cheryl.

6 Q. What is Cheryl? Other than a former Mayor

7 what does she do for a living?

8 A. I'm not sure if she does anything now.

9 Q. Retired now?

10 A. Yeah, she was with like the Chamber of

11 Commerce in different places.

12 Q. So she was not a realtor?

13 A. No, she was married to a doctor for awhile.

14 No, she was never a realtor.

15 Q. Then she probably made her living off of

16 divorcing the doctor.

17 A. I think he had to pay, you know.

18 Q. That's a good method.

19 A. It's not bad. I mean she probably put her

20 days in, had a couple of kids and stuff.

21 Anyway I think they're good friends now.

22 What they want to do is they want to close

23 this street right here, I'm told, and then

24 they want to extend all this over. And they

25 couldn't buy this property. These people


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Page 23

1 were putting up a fuss.

2 Q. What's the purpose of all this property?

3 A. This is supposed to become the

4 library/theater, then retail locks, you know

5 what I mean when I say locks over retail, and

6 then grocery store and shopping. See, and

7 I'm not sure if we - when I say we there's a

8 corporation called the JRC. Are you familiar

9 with it?

10 Q. Yes.

11 A. Whether they have picked up any of this

12 property yet or not.

13 Q. My understanding that's all been conveyed to

14 JRC.

15 A. To JRC. Then there's a paper trail.

16 Q. And I think, you know, I've talked with the

17 auditor and I think that some of those fears

18 are not shown on the transcript to the JRC.

19 I think. I'm still trying to get all of that

20 information. But you see some of what you're

21 complaining about may not be there. I don't

22 know yet. But what does bother me is the

23 Wallace-Bajjali connection.

24 A. Well, Wallace-Bajjali has a relationship with

25 Kuehn, and we know this because Kuehn


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Page 24

1 announced it. And that may well be in the

2 City Council minutes somewhere. What his

3 relationship is I don't know.

4 Wallace-Bajjali is going around, they're

5 paying three times what the property is worth

6 in my opinion. They've got property so

7 inflated in this town that, God bless them, I

8 wish I was in on the deal, but to me when you

9 sit on the City Council you can't be doing

10 things like that. You don't want to do

11 things like that.

12 Q. Has anyone in the Council talked about

13 terminating Wallace-Bajjali?

14 A. Would cost too much. What we need to do is

15 just let it guide. Don't give in to

16 Wallace-Bajjali. He's a hell of a salesman.

17 He'll remind you if you ever - and he'll talk

18 to you. He'll remind you of somebody with

19 blue suede shoes that just got off a

20 Greyhound bus to sell aluminum siding and

21 when he sells all he can he's getting back on

22 the Greyhound bus. Now that's what I've

23 always thought.

24 Q. Well, of course your City Manager claims that

25 he did all of the due diligence on these


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1 guys.

2 A. Do you know who did the due diligence?

3 Woolston.

4 Q. Is that right?

5 A. Yeah, Woolston. I mean I was the only one

6 that voted against it and, man, I started

7 getting stuff on Wallace-Bajjali that just

8 scares the pants off of you. They're very

9 litigious, they form LLCs like they're going

10 out of style, they've got more litigation

11 against them and filing lawsuits. I would be

12 scared to just cancel the contract right now

13 because of Council. What I'm not scared to

14 do - because every one of these projects

15 can't stand alone. He's got to have - like

16 the one he's got off the board which we

17 approved required a 35 percent investment by

18 the citizens of the City of Joplin, so the

19 citizens of Joplin put up 35 percent so he

20 could build these housing units.

21 Q. And then you've got to pay him a commission?

22 A. Well, yeah, but that included the - I mean

23 this guy is so smooth I'm telling you he's

24 like Teflon. But the City Manager stands

25 behind him.


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Page 26

1 Q. That's exactly where we're going.

2 A. All right. Here's the problem. The City

3 Manager is not controlled by the City Council

4 in my opinion. The City Manager tries to

5 control the Council. No matter what we tell

6 him he does what he wants to do. But there's

7 not enough votes to fire him. I thought we

8 had enough votes when I moved to fire him one

9 night, but I was one short.

10 Q. I understand the Mayor changed her mind

11 several times?

12 A. Several times.

13 Q. I'll be talking to her probably tomorrow.

14 A. And I was asked on the TV why did she change

15 her mind and I said I don't know, I guess

16 it's just a woman's prerogative. Well, they

17 wouldn't put that in there. But anyway that

18 would have solved the problem. That's what

19 broke this thing up. That's what really

20 brought everything to a head with Scearce and

21 everything. And the rumor is, might as well

22 hear rumors, that Mark has been feeding the

23 Joplin Globe with information that makes

24 Scearce look bad because he can't stand

25 Scearce. And I called him on it in a meeting


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Page 27

1 and he said, he admitted he didn't have

2 anything, he just was mad at Bill for Bill

3 criticizing him all the time. Now he says he

4 didn't say that, but goddamnit, it's on tape.

5 We've got the tape of that meeting.

6 Q. Can you have that tape provided to me?

7 A. Sure, you can. It's City Council. You just

8 ask for the tape of the last budget session.

9 Q. Not the transcription? Do I need the tape?

10 I'm having them transcribed.

11 A. You might just want the tape. Ask the clerk.

12 You know, you can say I said it. I don't

13 care. Say Benji said that Mark admitted that

14 he didn't have anything on Bill. He never

15 admitted he went to the Globe, but I think

16 that piece of paper is what probably - and I

17 don't know where that piece of paper is now.

18 Q. Have you ever seen that piece of paper?

19 A. No, I've never seen the piece of paper.

20 Q. I've got it.

21 A. Okay. Never seen it.

22 Q. It's not very much.

23 A. No, but, you know, I'm telling you really -

24 I'm trying to help the City Manager become

25 successful until I can fire his ass, to be


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1 quite frank with you. Do I think he should

2 be fired? Yes. Do I think it's time for him

3 to leave our city? Yes. Period. You know,

4 do I have enough votes? No. Will I make the

5 motion again and catch hell in the paper?

6 No. Will I vote to fire hi? Yes.

7 Q. So who will make the motion?

8 A. I don't know. So far we don't have enough,

9 anyone with any guts as far as I'm concerned.

10 It should be the Mayor. Let her do it.

11 She's the one that's screwing everything up

12 in the beginning, you know. I think there

13 are six votes there now, but I'm not sure. I

14 can't speak for anybody but myself.

15 Q. Well, you've given me some ground. I would

16 like you to do your homework a little bit

17 tonight, if you would.

18 A. Okay.

19 Q. And don't think you have to do it tonight

20 because I'll be back here for several weeks

21 yet.

22 A. Okay.

23 Q. So I mean this is not --

24 A. I'll get it for you and I won't trouble you,

25 but I will give it to Brian.


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Page 29

1 Q. Brian would be good.

2 A. I'll give it to Brian the information. And

3 why I can't remember, you know, you get

4 senior moments after awhile.

5 Q. I can't remember what you said.

6 A. Yeah, that's why you've got to transcribe it.

7 Q. That's why I've got a transcriptionist.

8 A. That's really all I know. I can't tell you

9 much about Bill Scearce and gambling. He

10 goes back into what, 1991, '91, '95. My

11 opinion is they're just being disparaging and

12 that it doesn't make a hill of beans because

13 he wasn't on the Council.

14 Q. Why is the Globe interested in it?

15 A. I don't know. Well, because they want to

16 sell papers and they can't sell many papers

17 anymore. I would guess. Yeah, but they seem

18 to be attacking Scearce pretty hard. They

19 get on me a little bit, but I'm just trying

20 to say, you know, maybe it's just I don't

21 want to be paranoid about this whole thing.

22 And Jesus Christ, we don't get paid anything.

23 I mean this is my civic duty. I was on the

24 School Board for nine years and I'll tell you

25 a little story. Before I ran for City


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1 Council somebody came up to me and said, they

2 heard I was going to run, they said, you

3 know, I knew they always persecuted the Jews.

4 I didn't know you liked it better. You

5 should stay on the School Board. Better

6 people.

7 Q. I kind of figured that's probably true, you

8 probably should have stayed.

9 A. And, you know, as I look back on my - I

10 served three terms, I was President of the

11 School Board twice, it was more fun. But

12 since I get my dander up I don't quit and I

13 don't give up easily. But anyway that's

14 where it is. And you might as well know that

15 Golden, Scearce, and I are very close

16 personal friends. We were close personal

17 friends long before we thought about being on

18 the Council and we'll be personal friends

19 long after our Council days are over. And

20 I've got two years and a few months and then

21 sayonara to the Council. I'll be too old to

22 serve another term as far as I'm concerned.

23 Q. Blood pressure won't take it probably.

24 A. Blood pressure is doing pretty good. Hell,

25 I'm 74 now. I'll be 77 when my term is over,


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1 almost 77. Why do you want to be an 80 year

2 old City Councilman? Let other people have

3 the joy of doing this job. We get paid $5.00

4 a meeting. All right, now, that's not so

5 bad. I lost one check and I've laundered

6 another so now I'm paying more taxes than I

7 get the money back. So I asked them to

8 please not pay me anymore, I can't afford it.

9 So anyway --

10 Q. All right. I hope that this investigation

11 will lead to some conclusions, and I think it

12 will.

13 A. I hope it leads to, in all honesty in the end

14 I hope it leads to the conclusion that

15 everyone has acted ethically and honestly and

16 that we've spent our $45,000.00 to prove it.

17 I don't think it will, but --

18 Q. Well, you know, I mean there will be some

19 recommendations made, I can tell you that

20 already, but whether those recommendations

21 will be followed who knows. I don't have any

22 control.

23 A. The Council, we're the elected officials,

24 we're the ones that make the decision. And

25 like I've tried to explain to the others,


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1 it's a game we play. It's called get five

2 votes. Whoever gets five votes wins the

3 game. We used to play four votes. Okay, the

4 City Council operates on a charter, we're a

5 charter city. We formed the charter in the

6 mid 50's, we got rid of the Mayor council for

7 of government which was beneficial for my

8 father and a few others, but not beneficial

9 to the citizens of the City. We hired

10 professional managers and we have a Council

11 that develops policy and should not interfere

12 in the operation of the City. The School

13 Board on the other hand operates by state

14 statute and at the pleasure of the state who

15 can dissolve the School Board any time they

16 so choose. Did you know that?

17 Q. No.

18 A. At any time they so choose. They've jerked

19 one out of the St. Louis area and they have

20 told that district that their students can go

21 anywhere they want as long as they stay in

22 that --

23 Q. I've heard that.

24 A. Well, the state Department of Education has

25 the right to do that, just tell the School


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1 Board you're done. Kansas City is just about

2 to get the same treatment. But with the

3 City, no. We had the distasteful benefits of

4 recalling the Councilmen when I was first on

5 the Council for doing what I think was

6 probably less than some of the stuff that's

7 going on now.

8 Q. All right.

9 A. Anyway I will get you the information of the

10 names of the people I've talked to, but why

11 in the hell - Vernon Lawson.

12 Q. Which one is that?

13 A. Vernon Lawson owned property on Murphy

14 Boulevard and it would back up to this area

15 right in here. And it was him and his family

16 - Vernon is getting pretty old and infirmed,

17 but his family members, and I don't know

18 their names, they were at this meeting I was

19 at and they were some of the ones that

20 weren't very happy either.

21 Q. Give me any names you can later.

22 A. Okay. And I can get them. Are you going to

23 interview Jack Golden?

24 Q. Yes.

25 A. He might even know more. He might remember


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1 their names. It was at that meeting that

2 Sunday afternoon. I can get you - well, we

3 know this is Dandridge. I'm really

4 interested in Mrs. Marvel's property. If

5 you've got a minute I'll tell you about Mrs.

6 Marvel. She was an instructor in English at

7 the college, somewhat quaint, and she shows

8 up at my office one day after I was elected

9 to the Council and she tells me she's being

10 tracked electronically by people from outer

11 space and they're doing it with microwaves,

12 she thinks. I'm looking at her like this

13 can't be real, but it was real. And she had

14 been to others and stuff. I suggested that

15 the City government couldn't help her and she

16 needed to talk to the FBI. I almost said she

17 ought to wrap herself in aluminum foil, but I

18 didn't. Anyway Mrs. Marvel owned a very nice

19 home, it was hidden by a high wall, and when

20 the tornado hit it was totally wiped.

21 Q. Maybe she was right, maybe somebody from

22 outer space was watching her.

23 A. Maybe. She also threw kids out of her class

24 because they wore perfume and she couldn't

25 stand perfume. She was pretty corny. That


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1 was my only dealing with Mrs. Marvel. But I

2 wondered about that property. I guess not

3 enough that I wanted to do an investigation,

4 but that's what we're paying you for. All

5 right, I'll get you any other names I can. I

6 assume you want to get the heck out of here.

7 Q. No, I need to try to - I've gone through

8 quite a few people today and I want to try to

9 wrap people up as quickly as I can because we

10 got a little bit behind with the Manager

11 being sick and I had to postpone a week

12 there.

13 A. Our Manager is sick?

14 Q. He was sick with something, the flu or

15 something.

16 A. When?

17 Q. It was two weeks ago. Last week. Last week.

18 We were trying to start last week.

19 A. No, he was out of town last week. He went to

20 Tuscaloosa, Alabama.

21 Q. Well, I was told he was sick.

22 A. He's not sick this week.

23 Q. No, he's been in here and he's talked with

24 me.

25 A. And don't think that everything he's done is


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1 totally bad. Mark has some remarkable traits

2 that this Council has been totally unable to

3 control, you know.

4 Q. Okay. I think we're done.

5

6 (SWORN STATEMENT CONCLUDED)

7

8

9


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REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE

STATE OF MISSOURI

ss.

COUNTY OF JASPER

I, SHARON K. ROGERS, Certified Court Reporter in the

State of Missouri, do certify that pursuant to the

foregoing Stipulation the witness came before me on the 6th

day of November, 2013, was duly sworn by me, and was

examined. That examination was then taken by me by

steno-mask recording and afterwards transcribed; said Sworn

Statement is subscribed by the witness as hereinbefore set

out on the day in that behalf aforesaid and is herewith

returned.

I further certify that I am not counsel, attorney, or

relative of either party, or clerk, or stenographer of

either party or of the attorney of either party, or

otherwise interested in the event of this suit.

_______________________

SHARON K. ROGERS, CCR-650

Documents

Rosenberg, Benjamin | Testimony transcript