OBLIGATORISK FORSIDE Prescribed front page

HJEMMEOPGAVER, PROJEKTER, SYNOPSER U/ MUNDTLIGT FORSVAR Home Assignments, Project Reports, Synopses without oral defence

INSTITUT FOR ERHVERVSKOMMUNIKATION Department of Business Communication

STUDIENUMMER Student No.

AP93996

EKSAMENSNR. (6 cifret

nummer på studiekortet kaldet Kortnr. eller eksamensnr.) Student Exam No.: (6 digit No at your Student ID-card called either Kortnr. or Eksamensnr.)

412356

HOLD NR.: Class No. Ex.: U02

FAGETS NAVN: Course/Exam Title

Bachelorprojekt

VEJLEDER: Name of Supervisor

Iris Rittenhofer

ANTAL TYPEENHEDER I DIN BESVARELSE (ekskl. blanktegn): Number of Characters in your Assignment (exclusive of blanks):

54832

Ved skriftlige gruppeopgaver skal den enkelte deltagers bidrag tydeligt fremgå.

In written group exams, your individual contribution must be clearly identifiable.

Aarhus Universitet

A qualitative study of the retention of foreign staff in Denmark Bachelorprojekt

Navn: Anja E. H. Poulsen Studienummer: AP93996 Vejleder: Iris Rittenhofer Antal typeenheder: 54832 Dato: 05-05-2014

Abstract Denmark will be in need of high qualified work force in the nearest future due to low birth rate

and technological development. Several efforts have therefor been made, to optimize the

recruiting to and retention of foreign staff in Denmark so as to keep being competitive on the

world market. This project seeks to shed light on the issue of retaining foreign staff in Denmark

and whether this staff feels the aforementioned desire to keep them in the country. I have done

so, by making a qualitative analysis, with a focus group, which involved seven unemployed

graduates from Bulgaria and Romania, who would then be able to tell me in which level of

integration they feel they are, in connection to the Danish job market. Due to the complexity of

integration the findings were multifaceted, but still the group leans towards being negatively

integrated. Even though that the group is happy with their rights in Denmark and the

opportunities they have, they have found that there is a lack of information so as to seek these

opportunities. Furthermore, the group has experienced a large difficulty of obtaining a job in

Denmark due to a lack of network, marginalization and discrimination. They find that if you don’t

know Danish and if you are a foreigner, then you have to be extra special in order to secure a job.

However, the depth of their negative experiences increases over time and given their situation as

unemployed, we should keep in mind, that they might be prone to criticizing.

Number of characters: 1248

Indholdsfortegnelse 1 Indledning ....................................................................................................................................................... 1

1.1 Begrebsdefinition .................................................................................................................................... 3

2 Teori ................................................................................................................................................................ 4

2.1 System integration og social integration ................................................................................................. 6

2.2 Positiv og negativ integration .................................................................................................................. 6

3 Metode ........................................................................................................................................................... 8

4 Analyse.......................................................................................................................................................... 10

4.1 System integration................................................................................................................................. 11

4.1.1 Delkonklusion ................................................................................................................................. 13

4.2 Social integration ................................................................................................................................... 14

4.2.1 Delkonklusion ................................................................................................................................. 18

4.3 Positiv integration.................................................................................................................................. 19

4.3.1 Delkonklusion ................................................................................................................................. 20

4.4 Negativ integration ................................................................................................................................ 20

4.4.1 Social marginalisering ..................................................................................................................... 20

4.4.2 Diskrimination ................................................................................................................................ 22

4.4.3 Assimilation .................................................................................................................................... 24

4.4.4 Delkonklusion ................................................................................................................................. 25

4.5 Forstærkende faktorer .......................................................................................................................... 25

5 Konklusion .................................................................................................................................................... 27

6 Perspektivering ............................................................................................................................................. 29

7 Litteraturliste ................................................................................................................................................ 30

Bilag 1 – Interviewguide

Bilag 2 – Transskription

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1 Indledning Udenlandsk arbejdskraft er blevet et vigtigt fokusområde for Danmark, da der er udsigt til mangel

på arbejdskraft i løbet af de kommende år. Årsagerne er primært som følge af store ældreårgange

og den teknologiske udvikling i Danmark, der skaber efterspørgsel på forskellige typer

velkvalificeret arbejdskraft (Thuesen, F., Tørslev, M. K., og Jensen, T. G., 2011). Denne

efterspørgsel har givet grobund for adskillige rapporter indenfor rekruttering og fastholdelse samt

trivsel og integration i Danmark for arbejdsimmigranter hvor også Erhvervs- og Vækstministeriet

har tilsluttet sig1. Udadtil virker interessen for at rekruttere udenlandsk arbejdskraft stor og

motivationen for at fastholde dem betydelig, men jeg vil gerne undersøge om dette opfanges af

immigranterne og hvordan de føler og ser denne interesse.

Mit fokus vil ligge på dimittender med en anden nationalitet end dansk, der har valgt at tage sin

uddannelse i Danmark. Denne gruppe er interessant, da de har været i Danmark i flere år for at

færdiggøre deres uddannelse og da de derfor har fået en særlig tilknytning og kendskab til

Danmark. Ifølge en undersøgelse om internationale studerendes karriereplaner vil fire ud af fem af

disse studerende gerne blive i Danmark efter endt uddannelse for at finde arbejde, hvor 60 % af

dem dog også fortæller at de har tænkt sig at forlade Danmark indenfor den nærmeste fremtid

(DAMVAD, 2013: 5, 10). Fastholdelsen af udenlandske dimittender er derfor ikke tilstrækkelig, og

det kunne være interessant at undersøge om det er fordi dimittenderne ikke opfanger det

førnævnte ønske om deres fortsatte tilstedeværelse i Danmark.

Da en tilknytning til det danske arbejdsmarked er en vigtig faktor for at udenlandske dimittender

gerne vil blive i Danmark (Uddannelses- og Forskningsministeriet, 2013), vil jeg derfor gerne lave

en undersøgelse der analyserer denne tilknytning nærmere. Jeg håber hermed at finde frem til

den/de årsag(er) der forværrer fastholdelsen af dimittenderne. Min problemformulering lyder

derfor således:

Hvordan opfatter bulgarske og rumænske ledige dimittender deres integration i forbindelse med

det danske arbejdsmarked?

1 Se fx Erhvervs- og Vækstministeriet, 2010; Thuesen, F., Tørslev, M. K., og Jensen, T. G., 2011;

Oxford Research A/S and The Copenhagen Post, 2010

2

Valget af Rumænien og Bulgarien er for mig interessant, fordi disse to lande skiller sig ud fra de

andre lande i EU-samarbejdet. For det første har de Europas laveste velstand (EU-oplysningen,

2012) og så deltagerer de ikke fuldt ud i Schengen-samarbejdet, da begge lande har problemer

med at opfylde reglerne på området (Udenrigsministeriet, 2013). For det tredje vil jeg vove at

påstå at medierne i Danmark har tegnet et negativt billede af østeuropæiske bander og at

fremgangen af ”billig” udenlandsk arbejdskraft, har været med til at skabe et dårligt image for

rumænere og bulgarere i Danmark. Hvis vi ser på EU’s egen lovgivning om at EU-borgeren i

jobsøgningsprocessen ikke må blive diskrimineret i forhold til statsborgeren (EU-oplysningen,

2014), så er det interessant at undersøge, om dimittender fra specielt Rumænien og Bulgarien

føler loven bliver overholdt i Danmark. I 2010 var der omkring 1300 rumænere/bulgarere der

studerede en hel uddannelse ved et dansk uddannelsesinstitut (Danmarks Statistik, 2011).

Min undersøgelse er baseret på den kvalitative metode, hvor jeg har benyttet mig af

fokusgruppeinterview. For at få så homogen en gruppe at udvinde empiri fra, har jeg kun udvalgt

dimittender fra VIA University College i Horsens, hvor ca. 50 % af alle studerende er udenlandske

(VIA campus Horsens, 2014). Jeg har endvidere kun været interesseret i dimittender med en lang

eller mellemlang videregående uddannelse, der ikke har fået job efter endt uddannelse, i en

stilling som dimittenden stræber eller uddannelsen sigter efter.

For at besvare min problemformulering har jeg benyttet mig af den integrationsteori, der er

udarbejdet af dr.scient.pol et cand.mag Flemming Mikkelsen, tidligere ansat ved Ålborg

Universitet. Teorien er inspireret af Lockwoods system- og social integration samt Charlotte

Hamburgers teoretiske overvejelser i forhold til integration. Jeg vil introducere læseren for disse i

teoriafsnittet. Efter teoriafsnittet vil jeg i metodeafsnittet begrunde mit valg af kvalitativ metode

og fokusgruppeinterview samt komme ind på rammerne for dette. Dernæst følger analyseafsnittet

og jeg vil til slut konkludere på min analyse i forhold til min problemformulering. Endeligt i

perspektiveringsafsnittet vil jeg sætte opgaven ind i en større sammenhæng.

Jeg har benyttet mig af den socialkonstruktivistiske tilgang, da jeg netop vil undersøge bulgarernes

og rumænernes egen opfattelse af deres situation. Denne tilgang bruges som ledetråd i hele

opgaven og jeg vil således kun have fokus på dimittendernes egne integrationsopfattelser i teori-

og metodeafsnittet.

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1.1 Begrebsdefinition

Til sidst vil jeg gerne knytte en kommentar til brugen af begreber i opgaven.

Jeg vil i teoriafsnittet gøre brug af ordet ’indvandrer’, som er tilskyndet af Mikkelsen, mens jeg i

resten af opgaven vil henvise til respondenterne som immigranter.

Den danske betydningsordbog:

Indvandrer: Person, som er rejst ind i et andet land end sit hjemland og har bosat sig der.

Immigrant: Person, der er flyttet fra sit hjemland, og som har bosat sig permanent i et andet land.

Gyldendals åbne encyklopædi:

Indvandrer: indvandrere, immigranter, tilflyttere til et land, som de har til hensigt at bosætte sig i

for et længere tidsrum. Som udgangspunkt er der ikke fri adgang til indvandring i Danmark. En

indvandrer kan være kommet som fx asylsøger, flygtning, gæstearbejder eller pga. giftermål med

en dansker; for disse grupper gælder særlige regler.

Immigrant: Indvandrer, person, der varigt er flyttet til et andet land end det, hvor vedkommende

oprindelig var statsborger

Forskellen mellem de to begreber er ikke åbenlys, men jeg har alligevel valgt at benytte mig af

begrebet immigrant, da det er mere positivt ladet.

Jeg vil også gerne gøre rede for, at begrebet integration skal forstås i den ånd som Mikkelsen er

inspireret af. Her Schermerhorn: ”… integration is not an end-state but a process whereby units or

elements of a society are brought into an active and coordinated compliance with the ongoing

activities and objectives of the dominant group in society.” (Schermerhorn i Mikkelsen, 2001: 13).

4

2 Teori

Flemming Mikkelsen har i samarbejde med CATINÉ udarbejdet en redegørelse for integration for

indvandrere og flygtninge i Danmark, hvori de præsenterer deres faglige og normative

overvejelser i en model (Figur 1). Modelen er bygget op omkring de emner der forholder sig til

integrationsbegrebet og hvad de opfatter som nødvendige forudsætninger for en vellykket

integrationsproces. Således mener Mikkelsen at man kan analysere den samlede integration ud fra

seks forskellige vinkler i et samfund nemlig system-, social-, positiv-, negativ -, objektiv - samt

oplevet integration, hvoraf jeg ikke vil benytte mig af den objektive i henhold til

problemformuleringen. Disse vinkler vil blive uddybet i de følgende afsnit, men da modellen først

og fremmest bygger på Lockwoods system- og social integrationsteori, vil jeg gerne knytte en

præcisering til.

Lockwood pointerer først og fremmest, at det er utilstrækkeligt kun at tænke i systemer og at

integration også handler om det sociale liv mellem mennesker. I denne forbindelse indførte han

skelnen mellem system og social integration for at frigøre den sociale integration fra

systemtænkning. Således understregede han, at integration ikke blot er en proces som

forekommer i institutionelle systemer som samfundet er struktureret omkring, men at

integrationen også i høj grad bør anskues ud fra de sociale relationer og interaktioner som sker

blandt menneskene i samfundet (Bunnage, 1998: 47-48). Denne opdeling er dog kunstig,

fremhæver han, og er kun adskilt af analytisk nødvendighed for at kunne undersøge integration,

da integrationsniveauet i samfundet essentielt er produktet af deres indbyrdes og samtidige

påvirkning. Desuden påpeger han, at integration forudsætter eksistensen af disintegration

(Bunnage, 1998: 49).

Udover Lockwoods teori er Mikkelsen yderligere inspireret af Charlotte Hamburgers teoretiske

overvejelser i forhold til integration fra 19972, hvor hun også har udgangspunkt i Lockwoods

integrationsteori. Denne teori kommer til syne under positiv og negativ integration, som jeg vil

komme ind på i de følgende afsnit.

2 Jeg snakker her om Charlotte Hamburgers værk ”Etniske minoriteter og social integration” fra 1997.

5

Figur 1 illustrerer de fem vinkler således, at integrationsprocessen er resultatet af system- og

social integration. Konsekvensen af system integration og social integration er en mangesidig

proces, hvor nogle kræfter fjerner grupper og individer fra hinanden, mens andre rykker dem

tættere sammen. Mikkelsen kalder disse kræfter for negativ integration og positiv integration

(Mikkelsen, 2001: 13). Kort sagt, er integrationen en mangesidig og til tider modsatrettet proces,

som både involverer majoritetsbefolkningen og minoritetsbefolkningen (Mikkelsen, 2001:27) og

den sidste vinkel vil vise hvordan gruppen opfatter sin egen placering i denne integrationsproces.

Således omfatter modellen ligeledes oplevet integration som Mikkelsen mener afspejles i syv

kategorier. Jeg har dog valgt kun at illustrere arbejdsmarkedet, da kun denne er relevant for

opgaven.

Jeg vil nu komme ind på de forskellige vinkler i modellen.

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2.1 System integration og social integration

Skelnen mellem system integration og social integration, gør det muligt at sondre mellem på den

ene side staten og de bærende institutioners politik over for mindretallet, og på den anden side

det individuelle møde og de sociale kontakter mellem forskellige befolkningsgrupper. System

integration refererer derfor til staten og de bærende institutioners politik over for etniske

mindretal. Både når det drejer sig om tildeling af civile, sociale og politiske rettigheder, og når det

drejer sig om forhold som påvirker mindretallenes økonomiske og sociale placering i det danske

samfund (Mikkelsen, 2001: 26).

Social integration fokuserer på majoritetens og minoriteternes opfattelse af, holdninger til og

adfærd over for hinanden både på det individuelle og det organisatoriske niveau. Det vil med

andre ord sige, de holdninger og omgangsformer vi møder hinanden med i dagligdagen – i skolen,

på arbejdspladserne, i fritiden, på gader, men også i vores sprogbrug. Medier, faglige

organisationer, uddannelsesinstitutioner, politiske organisationer og frivillige foreninger kan også

knyttes til her (Mikkelsen, 2001: 26).

System- og social integrationens adskillelse giver desuden plads til, at man kan forestille sig en

situation, hvor en indvandrer er systemintegreret men ikke socialt integreret, hvor han/hun fx

nyder godt af civile, sociale og politiske rettigheder, men på den anden side befinder sig i en

situation af social marginalisering og diskrimination. Der hentydes også til at der både fra

indvandrerens og danskerens side også kan forekomme bevidste valg, der fører i retningen af en

bestemt positiv eller negativ integration for indvandreren (Mikkelsen, 2001: 26-27).

2.2 Positiv og negativ integration

Positiv integration forudsætter først og fremmest formelle og reelle lige rettigheder og

muligheder; dernæst vigtigheden af autonomi og mulighed for selvbestemmelse på det

individuelle og kollektive niveau. Det vil sige selvbestemmelse i hverdagen og muligheder for at

oprette og påvirke institutioner og beslutningsstrukturer, som influerer på indvandrerens

livsbetingelser (Reinsch i Mikkelsen, 2001: 27). Er begge betingelser for positiv integration til

stede, øges også muligheden for at etniske minoriteter kan bevare og skabe deres egen kulturelle

identitet (Mikkelsen, 2001: 27). Mikkelsene er her inspireret af Charlotte Hamburgers teori om

integration, hvor målsætningen for to kulturer A og B i et samfund er, at de hver især bevarer

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deres særpræg og at den dominerende kultur er fleksibel overfor kulturforandringer (Hamburger,

1989: 40-41).

Indvandreren kan også være negativt integreret, der primært er resultatet af social

marginalisering. Det henviser i sin bredeste formulering til individers og gruppers perifere

deltagelse i samfundets centrale institutioner og de manglende muligheder for at få del i

essentielle sociale goder, kollektive som individuelle. Når marginalisering kædes sammen med

særlige sociale karakteristika såsom hudfarve, nationalitet etc. er grobunden lagt for

diskrimination og racisme. Diskrimination forekommer, når det enkelte individ af andre tilskrives

en bestemt væremåde (rigtig eller forkert), som er med til at fastholde personen i bestemte

sociale positioner. Den forekommer endvidere når kultur følges af stigmatisering, selektion og

eksklusion, hvilket kan fungere som en diskvalificerende kraft. Antager diskriminationen en

organiseret kollektiv form kan man tale om racisme (Mikkelsen, 2001: 27).

Denne Kombinationen af social marginalisering, diskrimination og racisme kan føre til, at mindretal

nedprioriterer deres økonomiske, sociale og politiske ambitioner og at gruppen reduceres til en

underklasse uden mulighed for at gøre sig gældende på arbejdsmarkedet (Mikkelsen, 2001: 14,

27) Det kan føre til, at den etniske/nationale kultur reduceres til en passiv artefakt, eller helt

absorberes i den dominerende kultur, dvs. en fuldbyrdet assimilationsproces. (Mikkelsen, 2001:

28). Assimilation er derfor, hvis vi tager udgangspunkt i Charlotte Hamburgers teori igen, at

medlemmerne af kultur B assimileres ind i den dominerende kultur A, således at kun A er tilbage

(Hamburger, 1989: 38).

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3 Metode

Jeg har valgt at benytte mig af en kvalitativ metode, da denne metode knytter sig til den

videnskabsteoretiske tilgang opgaven følger. Kvalitativ metode skaffer dybdegående og tolket

forståelse af respondenternes sociale verden ved at lære om deres sociale og materielle forhold,

deres erfaringer og oplevelser, perspektiver og historier. Denne verden ses som værende en

proces frem for blot at være statisk, og da jeg er interesseret i respondenternes egen opfattelse af

verden, er kvalitativ metode en åbenlys tilgang, da den leverer data der er detaljeret og rig på

informationer (Richie, J. & Lewis, J., 2003: 3-5).

Jeg har endvidere valgt at benytte fokusgruppeinterview frem for enkeltmandsinterview og andre

undersøgelsesteknikker. I fokusgruppen bliver data genereret ved interaktionen mellem

gruppemedlemmerne, når de stiller spørgsmål, debatterer og reflekterer, og dette afspejler

virkelighedens interaktion mellem mennesker (Richie, J. & Lewis, J., 2003: 171-172). Ergo vil jeg

med fokusgruppen prøve at skabe den sociale konstruktion.

En fokusgruppe består af seks til otte respondenter der mødes én gang i en periode fra en time til

to (Richie, J. & Lewis, J., 2003: 172). Jeg stræbte efter at finde otte respondenter da jeg i tilfælde af

aflysninger, derfor stadig ville have en gruppe af den korrekte størrelse. Jeg endte med at holde et

interview med syv respondenter. Før interviewet gjorde jeg mig tanker om gruppedynamik, styring

af interview og mængden af data der genereres ved gruppe af syv mennesker. Tanken var, at

afholde interviewet i to timer, da jeg gerne ville have tid nok til at stille mine spørgsmål samt opnå

dybdegående diskussioner. Resultatet blev et tre timer lang interview da jeg var ivrig efter at opnå

mit mål. Mine respondenter fandt jeg via mit netværk i Horsens ud fra kriterierne som beskrevet i

indledningen. Altså, havde jeg ikke et tæt kendskab til respondenterne som person eller deres

erfaringer.

Interviewet blev afholdt hjemme hos mig selv i Horsens af praktiske og logistiske grunde og der

blevet taget hånd om respondenterne i form af forfriskninger og snacks. Spørgsmål og planlagte

tider til interviewet kan nærstuderes i interviewguiden (bilag 1). Interviewspørgsmålene blev

primært udarbejdet ud fra teorien om system- og social integration dog med nogle uddybende og

opklarende spørgsmål til forlængelse af dette. Jeg hentede desuden også inspiration fra

rapporterne nævnt i indledningen.

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Interviewet er transskriberet så ordret som mulig og uden grammatiske rettelser. Jeg har dog valgt

at udelade beskrivelser af baggrundsstøj og fyldeord, så som udråbsord, hvis de ikke har betydning

for helheden. Transskriptionen er vedlagt som bilag (bilag 2) og interviewet kan høres på den

vedlagte cd.

Analyseafsnittet er udarbejdet ud fra teoriens rammer og jeg vil således starte med at diskutere

hvordan respondenterne oplever deres integration i systemet og socialt. Herefter vil jeg gennemgå

begreberne under negativ og positiv integration for også at diskutere i hvilken retning

respondenterne oplever at de bliver trukket hen imod. Jeg vil slutte af med et afsnit kaldet

’forstærkende faktorer’, da respondenternes holdninger er farvet af deres kulturelle baggrund

og/eller erfaringer, hvilket skal vejes med i konklusionen.

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4 Analyse Følgende respondenter indgik i min fokusgruppe:

Erzsébet Pálhegyi (Eliza) Nationalitet: Rumænsk Alder: 35 Uddannelse: Mechanical Engineering og Value Chain Management fra VIA University College, Horsens. Samt IT og Ingeniøruddannelser fra Rumænien Arbejdsløs: Siden januar 2012

Diana Elena Matei Nationalitet: Rumænsk Alder: 25 Uddannelse: International Marketing Sales Management fra VIA University College, Horsens Arbejdsløs: Siden juli 2013

Roxana Dumitrascu (Roxi) Nationalitet: Rumænsk Alder: 24 Uddannelse: Global Business Engineering fra VIA University College, Horsens Arbejdsløs: Siden juli 2013

Nikola Botzov (Nick) Nationalitet: Bulgarsk Alder: 23 Uddannelse: Global Business Engineering fra VIA University College, Horsens Arbejdsløs: Siden januar 2014

Ventsislav Nurkov (Ventsi) Nationalitet: Bulgarsk Alder: 24 Uddannelse: Mechanical Engineer fra VIA University College, Horsens Arbejdsløs: Juni 2012

Kameliya Stoyanova (Kami) Nationalitet: Bulgarsk Alder: 24 Uddannelse: Bygningskonstruktør fra VIA University College, Horsens Arbejdsløs: Siden juni 2012

Viktor Donkov Nationalitet: Bulgarsk Alder: 23 Uddannelse: Mechanical Engineer fra VIA University College, Horsens Arbejdsløs: Siden februar 2014

11

Alle respondenter er således dimittender fra VIA University College, Horsens (VIA), og har derfor

samme baggrund institutionsmæssigt. Endvidere har de alle boet i Horsens i forbindelse med

deres uddannelse og videre søgen efter arbejde. Dog skiller Eliza sig ud, da hun har en bred

erfaring, både uddannelsesmæssigt da hun har yderligere uddannelser fra sit hjemland, men også

fordi hun har haft en fod indenfor arbejdsmarkedet.

Følgende analyse skal derfor repræsentere de oplevelser der erfares som bulgarsk eller rumænsk

dimittend fra VIA, der på samme tid er bosat i Horsens.

4.1 System integration

Den første vinkel som jeg vil analysere dimittendernes integration ud fra er systemet, der refererer

til staten og dens institutioners politik over for disse. Ifølge Lockwood er det nemlig denne politik

der skaber de rettigheder og forhold hvorunder dimittender lever i Danmark.

Først og fremmest har respondenterne et noget broget kendskab til deres rettigheder i Danmark,

som indbefatter medlemskab af A-kasse og dertil hørende dagpenge i op til to år, ret til

danskundervisning og SU hvis man arbejder 10 timer om ugen. De mener ikke at være blevet

oplyst om især medlemskab af en A-kasse er en mulighed efter endt uddannelse og generelt

mener flere af respondenterne, at de står på egne ben, når det kommer til at finde ud af, hvilke

rettigheder og muligheder de har. Meget af den frustration der er opstået, er fordi de har fundet

ud af deres rettigheder for sent. Rettidige oplysninger havde været en stor hjælp føler de, da de

mener, at det kunne have hjulpet dem i at træffe bedre fremtidsvalg og/eller måske at de havde

haft større chance for at få arbejde (Transskription (T), 220-221, 240-241, 251-263: 9-10). Selv

kommunen har ikke været en ressource eller en informationskilde i søgningen efter svar på deres

spørgsmål, da Kami som eksempel har prøvet ihærdigt at bruge denne uden resultater (T, 243-246,

276: 9,10). I stedet for har det konsekvent været respondenternes egen søgning eller netværk af

udenlandske studerende, de har fået hjælp fra. Respondenterne føler, at de ikke bliver støttet i

deres situation som internationale studerende i et fremmed land, hvor man ikke kender til landets

politik eller de muligheder der er. Flere af dem savner, at VIA eller kommunen havde taget

ansvaret på sig, og fortalt dem hvilke alternativer der findes og hvilke forpligtelser de står overfor

som udenlandsk arbejdsløs (T, 261-263, 274-275, 277-288: 10). Kami fortæller dog at hendes

danskundervisning gav flere kurser i fx karrierevejledning og uddannelser, men at det skulle være

12

kommet fra VIA (T, 890-895: 28). Manglende oplysninger og følelsen af at stå alene i et fremmed

land er derfor fremherskende i gruppen.

På den anden side, er der bred enighed om, at de har mange af de samme rettigheder og lever

under mange af de samme forhold som deres meddimittender. De har fået samme uddannelse på

samme niveau som de danske studerende og de er på A-kasse med samme rettigheder som alle

andre i samme situation. Respondenterne er også klar over, at de ikke er danske statsborgere og

at de derfor ikke kan nyde godt af alle de rettigheder som disse kan. For respondenterne ligger

den store forskel i det skel, den danske stat har lagt mellem udenlandske studerende og danske

statsborgeres ret til SU der bliver nævnt et par gange under interviewet. Dette skel er der

forskellige holdninger til, da fx Nick synes at staten giver god støtte til ham i form af diverse andre

goder som dagpenge. Herudover, synes Kami at det er fantastisk at hendes uddannelse allerede er

betalt for og derfor ikke vil brokke sig over, at hun ikke får SU. Eliza på den anden side er belæst på

EU-området, og hun føler ikke at den danske stat støtter hende, tværtimod er den tvunget til at

støtte hende pga. EU-love og det giver hende ikke en større tro på at den danske stat vil hende det

bedste. En anden holdning kommer igen fra Kami, der siger at hun godt kan sætte sig i danskernes

sted og føler med dem, da hun også ville have samme modstand mod ’immigranter der kommer

og tager af statskassen’. Denne udtalelse fører til en diskussion om, hvem der faktisk står bag de

penge der betaler for deres uddannelser og hvem der finansierer deres dagpenge, hvilket igen

indikerer at respondenterne mangler oplysninger om deres vilkår i Danmark (T, 1670-1716: 50-52).

Af de få eksempler respondenterne kommer med, der viser at der er en person eller institution der

tager hånd om deres situation, er Kamis den ene, hvor hun fortæller at Horsens kommune har et

velkomst-projekt der hedder ’Welcome’ for udenlandske borgere. Her lærte hun om mulighederne

for at melde sig ind i en hobby-klub, som Eliza mener, er den gode måde at skabe sig et dansk

netværk på (T, 1198-1208: 37). Eliza er dog skeptisk igen, og udtaler at hun ikke er så sikker på, at

det er så nemt at finde ud af dette projekt eksisterer for udenlandske studerende, og så gerne at

det blev promoveret mere aktivt.

Det danske system bliver rost for at hjælpe respondenterne i at finde et arbejde. De oplever at A-

kasse og dagpengesystemet er til for at hjælpe dem med at finde et arbejde, og sammenlignet

med deres hjemlande er de overordentlige tilfredse (T, 565-577, 583-591: 18-19). De mener dog

ikke at systemet er perfekt da de har flere kritikpunkter, der især udspringer af den vejledning de

13

får fra jobcenteret og især Eliza er fremtræden i sine holdninger mod systemet. Hun så fx gerne at

jobcenteret fortalte hende, hvordan man skaber et netværk i stedet for bare at pointere at hun

skal gøre det (T, 578-583: 19), og igen føler hun, at den eneste grund til at udenlandske

immigranter har fået rettigheder, er fordi det er presset af EU til at gøre det. Dette giver ikke Eliza

grund til at påskønne systemet og tro på at hun er ønsket i Danmark (T, 1674-1677: 50-51). En

anden kritik kommer fra Roxi, der fortæller at flere relevante kurser, tilbudt arbejdsløse, først kan

tages når man er 25 år, hvilket sætter fx Kami i en dårligere situation (T, 1780-1783: 54).

Troen på systemet og at det vil ens bedste bliver testet for flere af respondenterne, og for det

meste er det skuffelsen over brudte løfter eller bristede forventninger der giver frustrationer for

dem. Kami kom fx til Danmark med troen på at uddannelsessystemet var nogenlunde det samme

som i Bulgarien, hvilket gav hende problemer i søgningen efter en kandidat. Hun er irriteret over

at VIA ikke har flere kandidater at byde på og generelt at der kun er få i landet hun kan optages på.

Hun mener at flere af hendes bekendte endda har forladt Danmark for at tage sig en kandidat, da

det ikke har været muligt at finde en i Danmark. Denne ærgrelse har bragt hende i den situation,

at hun har søgt om en svensk kandidat, som hun er blevet optaget på og hun overvejer nu at flytte

til Sverige (T, 882-886: 28). For Kami bunder denne overvejelse også i, at hun føler at hun er blevet

lovet beskæftigelse af VIA, når hun snakker med skolens medarbejdere, hvilket ikke er blevet en

realitet (T, 65-67: 4). Et eksempel som Diana også kommer med (T, 766-775: 24). Ventsis eksempel

er skuffelsen over den manglende kvalitet i jobcenteret, når han bliver tilbudt kurser, for at

forbedre hans chancer for at finde arbejde, der tydeligt ligger på niveauer lavere end faglige viden

han allerede har (T, 111-114: 6). Især Ventsi udtrykker at han skal behandles med respekt nu hvor

han er højere uddannet og han føler sig ikke respekteret ved sådanne tilbud fra jobcenteret (T,

1185: 36). Også Eliza er frustreret over jobcenterets kvalitet, da hun ikke forstår, hvorfor hun

konstant bliver rådet til at lære bedre dansk som det eneste råd, nu hvor hun føler hun snakker

lige så godt dansk som danskere (T, 270-272: 10). Efter længerevarende tid på dagpenge,

begynder flere af respondenterne dog at føle det pres der kommer, når man er tæt på at have

opbrugt sine to år på dagpenge. Et pres der fx tvinger Kami og Ventsi til at blive studerende igen.

4.1.1 Delkonklusion

Den største brist i respondenternes integration i systemet er deres oplevelse af manglende

informationer. Respondenterne føler ikke at der bliver taget hånd om dem og at de derfor selv har

14

ansvaret for at finde oplysninger om deres rettigheder og muligheder i Danmark. Denne

manglende information fører også til brudte forventninger og frustrationer der forstærker

respondenternes skuffelse som arbejdsløs. På den anden side, er der bred enighed om, at

respondenterne er i en gunstig situation som dagpengemodtager og at de har mange af de samme

rettigheder og lever under mange af de samme forhold som danske statsborgere. Eliza er den

eneste der forholder sig udelukkende negativt til systemet, da hun bl.a. tror på at Danmark er

blevet presset af EU til at hjælpe dem.

4.2 Social integration

Den anden vinkel er social integration, der fokuserer på majoritetens og minoriteternes opfattelse

af, holdninger til og adfærd over for hinanden både på det individuelle og det organisatoriske

niveau.

Respondenternes erfaringer på det sociale område er meget præget af den direkte input de har

fået fra VIA og de institutioner de besøger. De oplevelser de har haft fra VIA sidder uforanderligt i

dem og er med til at præge den holdning de har i deres nuværende situation som arbejdsløse. Af

denne grund mener jeg, at det er relevant at inddrage disse oplevelser.

Respondenternes indtryk fra VIA er mangfoldige, men også, i deres øjne, kritisable. De har alle

oplevet, at de danske studerende fik særbehandling i en eller anden form og at de internationale

studerende endda blev diskrimineret, hvilket jeg vil komme ind på under afsnittet derom. Selvom

respondenterne er enige i, at ikke alle underviserne lavede særbehandling, så nikker næsten alle

respondenter ja til, at underviserne opmuntrede de danske studerende mere end de

internationale. De er også enige i at de mistede undervisning, når de studerende og underviserne

slog over på dansk og ignorerede, at der skulle undervises på engelsk (T, 224-231: 9). Et eksempel

der viser, ifølge Kami, direkte dårlig opførsel og mangel på respekt mod udlændinge, er da en

underviser råbte ud i klassen, hvordan hun havde det med udlændinge der kommer for sent (T,

986-989: 31). Værre endnu er overbevisningen fra respondenterne om, at flere af underviserne

gerne ville føle sig overlegen og derfor gav de internationale studerende dårligere karakterer end

de danske studerende (T, 1758, 148-150: 53, 7). Værst er Elizas overbevisning om, at hun ikke

bestod et fag, blot fordi hun var uenig i underviserens holdninger vedrørende udenlandske

studerende og deres mangelfulde tilstedeværelse i klasselokalet (T, 1744-1751: 53). Eksemplerne

15

fra VIA om hvorledes underviserne forskelsbehandlede de internationale studerende bærer præg

af en samlet forståelse for, at danskere diskriminerer og føler sig overlegen udlændinge.

Mødet med den danske statsborger har været næsten ikkeeksisterende for respondenterne, da

både VIA har modarbejdet mødet i form af adskilte klasser og fordi det har været for vanskeligt at

blive venner med danskerne (T, 99-102: 5). Et eksempel kommer fra Eliza, der har brugt meget

energi på at møde de danske studerende for at skabe sig venner og få et netværk. Hun har

oplevet, at de danske studerende har rykket sig væk fra hende eller direkte har fortalt hende, at

hun skal flytte sig, hvis hun har prøvet at sætte sig sammen med dem (T, 202-204,207: 8). Hun

mener at der kun er få danskere der accepterer hende som udlænding. En holdning der også

understreges af hendes fortælling om hendes dimissionsfest, hvor selveste rektoren udelader

muligheden for de internationale studerende at blive i Danmark, ved at fortælle forsamlingen at

nu hvor de har fået sig en uddannelse, så kan de godt tage hjem (T, 294-295: 11).

Eliza har dog en stor omgangskreds der også indbefatter flere danskere og hun pointerer at det

ikke kun er negativt alt sammen. Hun har flere danske venner der ville være kede af at se hende

forlade Danmark, og hun har haft en chef der var rigtig glad for hende. Hun fortæller endvidere at

Janteloven eksisterer i Danmark og at denne også gør det svært for ambitiøse danskere at leve i

Danmark (T, 834-840: 26). Flere af respondenterne er enige i, at halvdelen af alle danskere faktisk

er glade for udlændinge og for at de kender det danske sprog (T, 841-846: 26) og netop det at

kende sproget, mener Eliza er en mulighed for at få danske venner (T, 1118-1124: 34-35).

Udover Elizas erfaringer har den manglende kontakt til danske meddimittender ikke givet

respondenterne mulighed for at opleve hvordan det går danske arbejdsløse, og faktisk er

respondenterne overbeviste om, at alle deres danske medstuderende har fået job eller kan finde

et job hvis de er interesserede (T, 705-708: 22). En overbevisning eller fakta der ikke fremmer en

positiv forståelse for hvorfor de ikke selv er i arbejde. Kami har dog fået at vide at

arbejdsmarkedet i hendes felt er mættet, hvilket får hende til at tro at også hendes danske

klassekammerater er arbejdsløse. Respondenterne er overbeviste om, at hvis de danske

medstuderende har fået arbejde, så er det fordi de har et dansk netværk de ikke selv kan skabe og

de eneste eksempler de giver vedrørende danskere uden arbejde er omkring en kvinde med

rygproblemer og en mand der prøvede at starte sit eget firma (T, 696-702: 25).

16

Især manglende danskkundskaber og manglende netværk får respondenterne til at føle sig

utilstrækkelig i deres muligheder for at finde arbejde. Gang på gang bliver de rådet til at lære

dansk og de har efterhånden fået den opfattelse, at hvis ikke man kan dansk, så kan man ikke få

arbejde. Ventsi har fx størst succes med at sende ansøgninger afsted som er skrevet på dansk (T,

329-336: 12) og Nick fortæller at 60-70 % af alle ledige job bliver besat gennem

netværksforbindelser (T, 337-242: 12). Respondenterne er af den opfattelse, at som udlænding er

det vigtigt at skille sig ud fra mængden hvis man vil gøre sig håb om at finde arbejde, og det giver

ikke plads til dem, der ikke har mulighederne eller evnen til at gøre dette (T, 386-391: 13-14). Især

Kami udviser fortvivlelse over hendes situation og det manglende netværk får hende igen til at

føle, at hun må klare sig selv (T, 347-348: 12). Eliza har et netværk, men hun er til gengæld imod at

få et arbejde, blot fordi hun er venner med vedkommende der kan give hende det. Hun vil kun

have et job, hvis det er fordi firmaet vil have hende for hendes kvalifikationer, ikke fordi hun har

en ven af firmaet (T, 1224-1229, 1241-1242: 37-38). I Rumænien sker det ofte at folk får arbejde

pga. kontakter og det respekterer hun ikke. Ventsi fik et jobinterview igennem en ven der arbejder

i Siemens, men de er enige i, at man ikke kan bruge sit netværk hele tiden, da dette ikke anses for

værende høfligt (T, 1290-1295, 1306-1308: 39-40).

Grundet den manglende SU har respondenterne også været interesseret i at finde arbejde under

deres studier, hvilket har været lige så svært som at finde fuldtidsarbejde nu. Igen føler Kami ikke

at der har været hjælp at hente og hun så gerne, at hun havde vidst bedre om hvad et vikarbureau

er for noget (T, 612-621: 20). Denne udtalelse ender i en diskussion om vikarbureauer og hvordan

folk kun hjælper deres egne venner. Netværk er igen vigtigt i denne sammenhæng, men selvom

respondenterne måske har et netværk af udenlandske kammerater hos vikarbureauer, så står

respondenterne stadigvæk alene, fordi området er så indbyrdes konkurrencepræget.

Et andet emne der går igen i interviewet, er mødet med vejledere fra respondenternes A-kasse

eller job center. Udover, som nævnt før, at de er glade for muligheden og støtten, så er der også

meget ris til disse vejledere, da de som sagt for det meste, kun råder til at forbedre ens

danskkundskaber eller tilbyder irrelevante kurser. Diana er den mest positive vedrørende dette

emne, da hun oplever stor hjælp fra hendes rådgiver hos hendes job center og hun pointerer at

det også er den arbejdsløses ansvar at være motiveret, da det ellers kan smitte af på en vejleders

entusiasme. Hvis man har en dårlig vejleder, kan det måske være ens egen skyld og hun hentyder

17

til at hun stadigvæk var entusiastisk på det tidspunkt hun fik hendes rådgiver, fordi det var i

starten af hendes arbejdsløshedsperiode (T, 481-490: 16). Eliza er dog skeptisk og mener at hun

måske har været heldig i at finde en engagereret person, der er ihærdig efter at hjælpe (T, 597:

19).

Spørgsmålet om hvorfor respondenterne ikke har fået arbejde skaber flere forskellige overvejelser

under interviewet og Roxi tager fx emnet op, at rumænere har et dårligt ry i Danmark. Flere gange

bliver det nævnt, at de danske medier fokuserer meget på kriminaliteten begået af østeuropæere.

Hun er klar over at dette foregår, men det ville stadigvæk være fair også at fortælle at ikke alle

rumænere er ens. Oplevelsen af at danskere har et forkert syn på rumænere og bulgarere er

tydelig og Diana er enig og tilføjer at vi er gode til at stereotypere i Danmark. (T, 554-562: 18).

Også Kami udviser frustrationer over at blive andetgjort og reduceret til noget negativt, der ikke

passer til hendes situation overhovedet (T, 806-809: 25). Uvidenheden om østeuropæere er

åbenlys, som når fx Roxi fortæller, at der er folk der betvivler hendes nationalitet, bare fordi hun

er blond. Hun har dog en anden holdning til stereotyper, da hun mener de er her for en grund,

men også at alle mennesker benytter sig af dem. Hun mener at hvis man tager dem personligt, så

handler det om at være forstående overfor brugen af dem (T, 831-833: 26).

Kultur ses også som en mulig hindring for at finde arbejde da Roxi fx pointerer at en dansk

arbejdsgiver måske hellere vil vælge det kendte frem for det ukendte (T, 751-752: 24). Ventsi

hentyder til, at arbejdskraft med en anden kultur end dansk stadigvæk giver gode resultater på

arbejdspladsen (T, 710-728: 22-23). Derudover bliver emnet ikke diskuteret som en hæmning, men

som en realitet man skal have kendskab til. Man skal have respekt for, at man lever indenfor

rammerne af en kultur der er anderledes end den man kommer fra og derfor er det ens pligt at

respektere og kende til den. Nick pointerer fx at interkulturel forståelse er vigtig i jobsøgningen og

for karrieren, da der ellers kan blive skabt gnidninger mellem intervieweren eller ledelsen.

Et vigtigt spørgsmål under denne vinkel, er vedrørende respondenternes følelse af at være ønsket

i Danmark. Hvis ikke man føler sig ønsket, så er det naturligt at rejse hen hvor den følelse ikke er til

stede. Desværre føler flere af respondenterne sig uønsket i Danmark. En følelse der også var til

stede da de var studerende på VIA. Fx får de i mødet med tilfældige danskere at vide, at de er

direkte uønskede, eller blot er i landet for at få gratis understøttelse. Den manglende viden fra

18

danskere omkring respondenternes ophold i Danmark og hvorfra deres understøttelse bliver

finansieret irriterer dem. Kami pointerer at der kommer rigtig meget udenlandsk valuta til

Danmark ad denne vej og at det faktisk styrker den danske økonomi. Hun går endda så langt, at

hun sætter sig selv i den muslimske gruppes sted, der er i Danmark, som hun føler bliver glemt i

samfundet og som der ikke bliver brugt kræfter på at få integreret (T, 779-793: 24-25). Hun er så

frustreret over at føle sig uønsket, at hun nogle gange har lyst til at give op, pakke hende ting og

forlade Danmark. Hun henviser også til, at mange i hendes omgangskreds har det på samme måde

(T, 758-765, 814-818: 24, 26). Eliza føler dog at denne muslimske gruppe har det værre end

respondenterne. Diskussionen går her videre til at omhandle danskeres diskrimination af andre

end dem der ligner dem selv. Flere af respondenterne giver udtryk for, at hvis ikke man er hvid og

har blå øjne, så er det svært at leve i Danmark (T, 776-809: 24-25). Eliza føler at problemet bunder

i de løfter østeuropæerne får i deres hjemlande, når rekrutteringsagenter fortæller om forholdene

i Danmark. Eliza blev selv lovet beskæftigelse fra en af disse rekrutteringsagenter i Rumænien og

at hun har brugt tre års opsparing på at rejse til Danmark for at søge et bedre liv. Når hun så ikke

oplever at forholdene er som det blev lovet, så rammer frustrationen og vreden hende (T, 1053-

1057: 33). Flere af respondenterne nikker genkendende til dette rekrutteringsfænomen og Roxi

har endda en ven der har været i Rumænien for at repræsentere VIA for at rekruttere studerende

til Danmark (T, 1077-1085: 33-34). For Roxi ligger problemet i at der bliver snakket meget i

medierne om at Danmark har brug for udenlandsk arbejdskraft og at det ikke stemmer overens

med den behandling de har fået indtil videre (T, 824-829: 26).

4.2.1 Delkonklusion

Flere af respondenterne kom til Danmark i håb om at tage sig en uddannelse for derefter at få

arbejde. Et håb der blev bakket op af rekrutteringsagenter og medier der fortæller om mangel på

arbejdskraft. Dog oplevede respondenterne at dette håb ikke blev mødt som forventet, da de

opdagede at der er andre faktorer der spiller ind i deres søgen efter arbejde. Således mener

respondenterne at de bliver forskelsbehandlet og at et manglende dansk netværk ganske enkelt

gør det meget vanskeligt at finde arbejde. Respondenterne føler sig ikke ønsket i Danmark. Både

pga. den forskelsbehandling de møder, men også fordi at mange danskere har et forkert syn på

rumænere og bulgarer, og fordi at danskere direkte fortæller dem, at de snylter systemet.

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4.3 Positiv integration Skal respondenternes integration spores i ind i den positive retning skal de først og fremmest

opleve, at de har samme formelle og reelle rettigheder og muligheder som danske statsborgere.

Som beskrevet under system integration, så er respondenterne enige i at de har samme

rettigheder som danske statsborgere, mens de er utilfredse med de muligheder de har fået.

Respondenterne føler ikke at de er blevet informeret rettidigt om deres rettigheder, hvilket har

kompliceret deres valg og chance for at få arbejde. Mulighederne er til stede for respondenterne,

men grundet kulturelle, sproglige og diskriminerende faktorer, så kan disse muligheder ikke

anvendes i lige så høj grad som danskerne kan.

Dernæst er det vigtigt at respondenterne føler autonomi og mulighed for selvbestemmelse på det

individuelle og kollektive niveau. Da respondenterne er EU-borgere får de automatisk en masse

rettigheder på højde med danske statsborgere, som Eliza påpeger flere gange, og de føler derfor

ikke at de er blevet frataget deres selvbestemmelse. Følelsen af at de er frie borgere med

muligheden for at forlade Danmark når de har lyst er evident og den åbenlyse søgen efter arbejde

og klare holdning til, at de har samme kvaliteter som danske statsborgere, når det kommer til

arbejdskraft, viser at de ikke mangler handlingskraft. Ved spørgsmålet om respondenterne har

tænkt på at flytte væk fra Danmark har alle deres holdning og intentioner, men én ting kan dog

konkluderes fra deres udtalelser, og det er at de ikke er fastlåst i Danmark, hvilket vil sige at de

tager hen hvor arbejdet er. Hvis ikke Danmark er i stand til at give dem arbejde eller vise interesse

for deres evner, så vil de ikke have interesse i at blive i landet (T, 1393-1439: 42-44). Hvis begge af

disse betingelser for positiv integration er til stede, så mener Mikkelsen at muligheden for at

respondenterne kan bevare og skabe deres egen kulturelle identitet er til stede. Altså vil en

bevarelse og skabelse af egen kulturel identitet også betyde at betingelserne er til stede.

Udover Eliza og Viktor er respondenterne tydeligt glade eller neutrale over at være i Danmark og

især Kami og Ventsi føler sig rigtig godt tilpas i det danske samfund som bulgarer. Disse to føler at

de kan forblive bulgarer i Danmark, at de kan snakke deres sprog og at det ikke er noget der skal

skjules i hverdagen (T, 1004-1013: 31). Endvidere føler de sig velintegreret i Danmark og de har

forståelse for danskernes måde at arbejde på. Kami pointerer endda, at det er i orden at de som

udlændinge ændrer sig for bedre at kunne integrere sig i det danske samfund (T, 990-997: 31).

Eliza er her uenig, da hun mener danskerne også skal ændre sig for udlændingenes skyld, nu hvor

20

medierne siger at der skal flere udlændinge til Danmark. Hun mener dog ikke at danskerne er

villige til at ændre sig (T, 999-1003: 31). Ventsi pointerer hernæst, at man kan være så rumænsk

man vil være når man er kommet hjem fra arbejde, og at man først og fremmest må være en

anden person på arbejdet. Kami er enig, og fortæller at der faktisk ikke er så mange ting man skal

føje sig efter. Det er bedre bare at ændre sig, for at fremme kommunikationen mellem dansker og

udlænding og dette ændrer ikke på hendes kulturelle baggrund. Respondenterne har heller ikke et

problem i at skulle lære dansk. De føler at det er deres ansvar som udefrakommende at lære det

indfødte sprog, men også at det er en uundværlig egenskab hvis man vil have et arbejde i Danmark

(T, 1130-1133: 35). Flere pointerer at man udviser respekt ved at lære dansk og Ventsi mener

endda at han bliver beriget ved at lære det (T, 1163: 36).

4.3.1 Delkonklusion

Som sagt er der ikke noget der tyder på, at respondenterne ikke kan bevare og skabe deres egen

kulturelle identitet, og generelt set føler de sig positivt integreret i forbindelse med det danske

arbejdsmarked. Den eneste faktor der hindrer den positive integration er det faktum, at

respondenternes muligheder er begrænsede i forhold til de danske statsborgere.

4.4 Negativ integration

Spores respondenterne i en negativ retning, er det først og fremmest fordi de føler at samfundet

har marginaliseret dem. Denne marginalisering kan være grundet diskriminerende faktorer eller

direkte racistiske aspekter der derfor kan føre til følelsen af assimilation.

4.4.1 Social marginalisering

Respondenterne har et klart drive der stadig får dem til at kæmpe mod de kræfter der ikke tillader

dem at få arbejde. Dette drive kommer af lysten til at arbejde og studere og nå frem til det mål de

har sat sig. De mener at livet er til for at udvikle sig og at man ikke bare kan sidde derhjemme og

slappe af (T, 1516-1532: 46). Dette drive er oppe i imod en stor udfordring, da respondenterne

gang på gang føler, at de skubbes ud i den perifere deltagelse i samfundet, så de får mangel på

essentielle sociale goder.

Allerede ved studiestart begynder flere af respondenterne at føle den sociale marginalisering, da

der skabes en opdeling af nationaliteterne i klasseform. Grunden bag er uvist, men følelsen der

skabes, er at man skubbes ud til siden (T, 99-101: 5). Værre endnu er den opførsel de møder fra

flere af deres undervisere, når de får at vide, at de er en gruppe for sig og at denne gruppe er en

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’særlig ballast (T, 131-133: 6). Allerede fra skolen bliver der skabt en følelse af, at der er noget galt

med respondenterne og at danskerne er en gruppe for sig, der på en måde har bedre kvaliteter

end udlændinge. Dette skaber demotivation for flere af respondenterne allerede før de forlader

skolen (T, 154-157: 7). Kami kommer med en udmærket konklusion på, at deres integration faktisk

blev sat på spil i VIA, da det ikke var en mulighed at blive en del af gruppen og at det derfor er

blevet svært for dem at finde arbejde (T, 208-211: 8).

Følelsen af at blive marginaliseret i samfundet kommer af at blive afvist af arbejdsmarkedet og at

afvisningen føles begrundet af andre faktorer end at de ikke er kvalificeret arbejdskraft. Netop

pga. at de er udlændige er en stor faktor imod dem og på intet tidspunkt føler de, at danskere

synes de ville være en gavn for selskabet. Af andre faktorer imod dem, nævner Kami fx manglende

danskkundskaber og netværk, anden nationalitet end dansk og alder og hun er meget frustreret

over, at der er en manglende indsigt i hendes kvalifikationer (T, 353-365: 13). Eliza deler hendes

frustrationer, men hun bemærker mest at danskerne diskvalificerer hende pga. hendes

nationalitet (T, 368: 13). Kami er så frustreret over sin situation og hendes motivation så lav, at

hun nu blot er interesseret i en stilling der kan give hende løn. Ventsi er enig i, at der er andre

faktorer til stede, der spiller imod dem i deres søgen efter arbejde, men fælles for dem begge, er

at de er fanget i uvisheden om hvad de gør forkert (T, 447-448, 449-451: 15). Et essentielt socialt

gode i Danmark er at have et fritidsarbejde, men dette har heller ikke været en mulighed (T, 630-

633:20).

Eliza har en klar holdning til det danske arbejdsmarked og hvordan der ikke er plads til personer

som ikke kan sælge sig selv til et jobinterview (T, 1484-1494: 45). Hun har desuden, igennem sine

danske venner, skabt den holdning, at det danske samfund stempler arbejdsløse som

samfundsproblemer med mentale problemer og at disse mister deres selvtillid hvilket sætter dem

i en ond cirkel, da de derfor ikke kan sælge dem selv til et jobinterview. Hun mener at både

arbejdsløse udlændinge og arbejdsløse danskere marginaliseres i jobsøgningsprocessen grundet

samfundets holdning til arbejdsløse (T, 653-661: 21) (Se også T, 678-688: 22).

En anden side af marginaliseringen er den markedet skaber, da kendskabet til Østeuropa for

firmaer i Danmark ikke er i særlig stor behov. Respondenterne er enige i, at Danmark ikke handler

med Bulgarien og Rumænien og at det derfor kun er internationale studerende, med sprog- og

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kulturkendskaber til lande i interesseområder for Danmark, der er i efterspørgsel (T, 901-918: 28-

29). Eliza mener også, at hvis der er nationaliteter der er kendte for at besidde særlige egenskaber,

så vil de også være mere eftertragtede så som franske ingeniører. (T, 919: 29).

Jeg vil her nævne, at Eliza føler marginaliseringen ekstra kraftigt, da hun mener at hun burde være

eftertragtet med alle de erfaringer og uddannelser hun har. Også Kami har store frustrationer, da

hendes længerevarende arbejdsløshed har fået hende til at tvivle på sig selv og har fået hende til

at søge muligheder udenfor Danmark (T, 1495-1497: 45).

4.4.2 Diskrimination

Når kultur følges af stigmatisering, selektion og eksklusion nærmer vi os diskrimination, hvilket der

er flere eksempler på.

Igen er der et eksempel fra VIA, hvor jeg vil henvise til det føromtalte eksempel på, at udenlandske

studerende føler, at danske studerende konsekvent får højere karakterer blot fordi de er danske

(T, 148-149: 7). Nick mener endvidere, at underviserne favoriserede de danske studerende, og at

disse derfor fik de praktikpladser der var tilgængelige, som underviserne var i stand til at skaffe (T,

1352-1361: 41). Nick og Ventsi forklarer, at man typisk får sig en fuldtidsstilling, hvis man først har

haft en praktikplads i firmaet, og hvis man så konstant udkonkurreres af danske studerende, så er

det ikke muligt at få arbejde.

Jobcenteret er til for at hjælpe de studerende med at få arbejde, men også her er der eksempler

på diskrimination. Både Ventsi og Kami har været ud for, at de er blevet rådgivet til at ændre deres

navn og alder i deres CV. Fordi danskere ikke kan forholde sig til udenlandske kulturer og ikke

forstår deres kvalifikationer, er Ventsi blevet rådgivet til at ændre sit navn så det bliver mere

dansk-lydende. Han fik endda at vide fra sin rådgiver, at hans navn var underligt (T, 968-973: 30).

Kami har endda helt slettet sin alder fra sit CV, da folk betvivlede hendes kvalifikationer fordi hun

er yngre end den typiske danske dimittend (T, 188-189: 8). Hun er dog, i modsætning til Ventsi,

også blevet rådet til, ved et LinkedIn-kursus, til at skrive et navn der skiller sig ud fra mængden, da

det skaber blikfang. Så hun pointerer at der er forskellige oplevelser til stede her (T, 974-977: 30).

Alle respondenterne er enige i, at de ikke har fået et jobinterview eller en stilling, blot fordi de er

udlændinge (T, 963-965: 30) og beviset for dette er, ifølge Eliza, at der er masser af jobs på

markedet og at de ledige stillinger står opslået i flere måneder (T, 1338-1341: 41). Alle undtagen

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Kami er sikker på at alle deres danske klassekammerater har fået arbejde (T, 1362-1368: 41-42) og

respondenterne er enige i, at danskere simpelthen har flere muligheder, da de har et netværk og

fordi de hjælper hinanden (T, 1376-1384: 42). Viktor er af den holdning, at østeuropæere har en

lavere status i det danske samfund, hvilket får Ventsi til at ytre, at han mener, at hvis der er to

nationaliteter til en jobsamtale, så vil østeuropæeren altid blive valgt til sidst blot pga.

nationaliteten. Kami har haft samme tanker og tror at hvis hun havde været englænder, så havde

hun haft arbejde nu (T, 943-952: 29-30). Eliza går direkte over til at tale om race blod.

Respondenterne er dog klar over, at der er mange kriminelle fra Østeuropa i Danmark, der præger

danskernes holdninger, men som før nævnt er de ærgerlige over at de alle bliver skåret over én

kam. Som omtalt under social integration, så er flere af respondenterne også overbevist om, at

hvis man ikke er danskudseendet, så har man det svært i Danmark, da danskere diskriminerer

groft. Eliza er endda af den overbevisning at danskere sætter folk i bås alt efter hvor de kommer

fra eller hvordan de ser ud. Efter hendes mening er danskere direkte racistiske, da de har et

essentialistisk syn på forskellige befolkningsgrupper (T, 803-805: 25).

Eliza kommer desuden med mange eksempler på diskrimination på arbejdsmarkedet, som fx at

hun har været uheldig nok til at blive tilbudt et job i bytte for sexydelser (T, 868-869, 873-874: 27).

Hun har også prøvet at blive diskrimineret under et jobinterview, hvor HR-medarbejderen der

interviewede hende, påstod at hun ikke var interesseret i at arbejde, men blot ville være på

dagpenge (T, 526-527: 17). Slemmere blev det, da hun alligevel blev ansat, men oplevede at

firmaet ikke bandlede østeuropæerne særlig godt, selvom det var et internationalt firma med bl.a.

svenske og tyske kollegaer. Hun endte med at sige op til stor ærgrelse for hendes chef og hun

endte med at leve uden dagpenge i tre måneder af bare skam.

Kombinationen af social marginalisering, diskrimination og racisme kan føre til, at respondenterne

nedprioriterer deres økonomiske, sociale og politiske ambitioner og især Kami er et eksempel på

at dette er tilfældet. Hun fortæller at hun er holdt op med at søge arbejde kritisk og blot er ude

efter et job der giver løn. Derudover fortæller flere af respondenterne hvordan de har været

deprimeret, har mistet deres motivation og hvordan fortvivlelsen har sat sig i dem.

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4.4.3 Assimilation

Assimilation er når den etniske/nationale kultur reduceres til en passiv artefakt, eller helt

absorberes i den dominerende kultur.

Der står klart at respondenterne er i gang med en integrationsproces igennem jobcenterets råd og

den måde de bliver presset til at lære dansk. Udover hvad jeg har nævnt om deres holdning til

deres integrationsproces, så er der områder hvor respondenterne er tvunget til at ændre på deres

kulturelle baggrund for at kunne blive accepteret af den danske kultur. Der er fx ikke plads til at

bruge sin egen kulturelle baggrund hvis man skal have et job som bulgarer/rumæner mener Eliza.

Hvis man er til jobinterview, så skal man opføre sig som en dansker og ikke som en østeuropæer

forklarer hun. Hendes erfaringer viser, at danskere ikke forstår den østeuropæiske beskedenhed,

men at man i stedet skal vise styrke og selvtillid til et interview. For hende er det en stor

frustration, fordi hun føler at man i Danmark derfor skal have salgskompetencer i stedet for at

blive vurderet på sine egenskaber (T, 392-402: 14). Også Ventsi er blevet rådet til at vise interesse

ved at ringe til arbejdsgiveren, hvilket Eliza ikke føler ligger til hendes kultur (T, 414-421: 14).

Der er en tro på, at den danske kultur ikke vil ændre sig for den østeuropæiske og at de to kulturer

derfor modarbejder hinanden i søgningen efter en arbejdsplads (T, 120-121: 6). Dog er der fra

flere af respondenters side en klar holdning til, at dette er naturligt og at den danske kultur ikke

skal rykke sig for udefrakommende forskelligheder. Hvis man er kommet til Danmark for at søge

arbejde, så skal man selv være villig til at integrere sig som følge heraf (T, 1015-1018: 32). Eliza er

dog tydeligt uenig, da hun åbent giver udtryk for danskernes kultur i en negativ forstand og at det

kunne være bedre eller mere åbent. Hun så gerne at danskerne var mere velkomne nu hvor

Danmark har brug for udenlandsk arbejdskraft. Kami pointerer igen at det er udlændinges ansvar

at tage imod de danske traditioner og som eks. bruger hun det medierne har taget frem, hvor

muslimer ikke vil lade vuggestuer fejre julen eller spise svinekød. Hun ville heller ikke bryde sig om

hvis nogen kom og sagde, at hun skulle stoppe med at fejre hendes traditioner. Hun mener ikke at

danskere skal ændre sig for udlændinges skyld. Diana tilføjer dog, at danskerne har et ansvar for at

give udlændinge en chance for at være i landet og for at integrere sig (T, 1030-1052: 32-33).

Der er derfor ikke en entydig holdning til om respondenterne er ude for en assimilationsproces, og

holdningerne til hvem der har ansvaret for at ændre sig for hvilken kultur er heller ikke entydig.

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4.4.4 Delkonklusion

Den negative integration vejer tungt hos respondenterne, da der er en klar opfattelse af at de

bliver marginaliseret og diskrimineret. Alle respondenter, undtagen Kami, er sikre på at deres

danske medstuderende har fået et job og at det er fordi de forfordeles af både medarbejderne i

VIA og på arbejdsmarkedet. Da respondenterne ikke er perfekt til dansk, da de har en anden

nationalitet og da de ikke har et fyldestgørende netværk, så diskrimineres de i

jobsøgningsprocessen. Det er kun ved diskussionen om assimilation, at der er vage tendenser og

decideret racisme har der ikke været evidente tegn på.

4.5 Forstærkende faktorer

Respondenterne kommer med flere standpunkter, der ikke direkte kan bruges i diskussionen om

integration, men som til gengæld er med til at påpege i hvilket omfang de føler som de gør og

hvorfor.

For det første, føler flere af respondenterne at de er bedre kvalificerede som arbejdskraft end

deres danske medstuderende, hvilket kan være med til at forstærke deres frustrationer over ikke

at blive tilbudt arbejde. Fx føler Ventsi og Roxi at de har en bedre baggrund matematisk, da deres

folkeskole og gymnasium har givet dem det niveau de ser at de skal lære på universitetet (T, 103-

105, 118, 162: 5, 7), for ikke at nævne Eliza der bærer stor præg af at føle sig velkvalificeret. Eliza

føler endvidere at systemet i Rumænien er mere praktisk og bedre end det danske (T, 197-202: 8).

En anden faktor ligger i presset på respondenterne om at lære det danske sprog, da de har fået

den opfattelse, at det er den eneste udvej til at finde et job. Forståelsen for at lære sproget er

positiv, men når gruppen så ikke finder arbejde efter at have lært dansk, så begynder de at blive

forvirret over, hvorfor de stadig er arbejdsløse (T, 268-269: 10).

En tredje faktor kommer fra Kami vedrørende forskellene mellem den danske kultur og den

østeuropæiske angående følelsen af at være arbejdsløs. Hun pointerer, at danske dimittender er

glade for at være på dagpenge og har ingen problemer i at være arbejdsløs, hvor det er stik

modsat som østeuropæer. Disse får dårlig selvtillid, dårligt selvværd og lav motivation af at være

arbejdsløs og lysten til at slippe væk fra at være arbejdsløs er så høj, at de hellere vil tilbage til

universitetet eller deres eget land for at finde arbejde og føle sig anstændig igen (T, 662-677: 21-

22). Et andet eksempel hvor den kulturelle forskel bliver en faktor, er eksemplet hvor Eliza siger

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nej tak til at få et arbejde i Danmark, da hun følte det var på samme præmisser, som dem hun ikke

har respekt for i Rumænien (T, 1224-1242: 37-38).

En fjerde faktor kommer også fra Kami, da hun mener, at hvis man stiller en østeuropæer et

spørgsmål, så vil vedkommende først være negativ i sit svar, før der kommer noget positivt. Dette

skal ses som en vigtig faktor, da interviewets negativitet derfor skal ses med kulturelle briller (T,

860-863: 27). Roxi kommer med en bemærkning der måske kan ses i lyset af denne pointe ”Here is

so much, like, negative experiences like bad luck.” (T, 871: 27). En anden interessant pointe

vedrørende den østeuropæiske kultur kommer også fra Kami og herudover fra Ventsi, da de

fortæller at kulturen er meget konkurrencepræget og at der er meget jalousi indbyrdes den

østeuropæiske vennegruppe (T, 1313-1327: 40). Hvis denne gruppe er det bedste netværk

respondenterne har, så er det ikke fremmende hvis den direkte modgår deres chancer for at få

arbejde.

En femte faktor ses tydeligt i gruppen, da alle respondenter har forskellige tidsrum hvori de har

været arbejdsløse. Således er Nick og Viktor de mest ordfattige under interviewet og de mest

neutrale i deres holdninger, som jeg ser som et resultat af deres kun to måneder korte

arbejdsløshed. Diana og Roxi har været arbejdsløse i knap et år og de er stadigvæk positive eller

neutrale i deres holdninger, men de har dog flere erfaringer de gerne vil fortælle om. Kami og

Ventsi har snart nået deres grænse på to år som dagpengemodtagere, og det er tydeligt at det

skaber dem store frustrationer og en større tro på, at der er diskrimineres imod dem. Til sidst

kommer Eliza i en kategori for sig selv, som den person der både har erhvervserfaring og flere

uddannelser, men som også føler, at dette burde give hende store chancer for at få arbejde. Når

hun så stadigvæk er arbejdsløs efter to år, så giver dette hende de største frustrationer af alle.

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5 Konklusion Jeg har med denne opgave ville undersøge udenlandske dimittenders tilknytning til det danske

arbejdsmarked, i håbet om at finde frem til de årsager der forværrer fastholdelsen af disse i

Danmark. Min problemformulering lød derfor således:

Hvordan opfatter bulgarske og rumænske ledige dimittender deres integration i forbindelse med

det danske arbejdsmarked?

Resultatet er langt fra entydig, hvilket stemmer overens med teorien, der siger at integration er en

mangesidig og til tider modsatrettet proces.

Respondenterne har via EU-lovgivning og danske interesser fået mange af de samme rettigheder i

Danmark, som danske statsborgere nyder godt af og kun Eliza er utilfreds med systemet i denne

kontekst, da hun mener at Danmark er blevet presset til at give disse rettigheder til andre EU-

borgere. Dog finder respondenterne at der er stor mangel på viden og informationer omkring

deres rettigheder og muligheder i Danmark, hvilket ifølge dem har forsinket deres integration og

skabt frustrationer. Derudover når mulighederne er kendte, er de grundet kulturelle, sproglige og

diskriminerende faktorer ikke i lige så høj grad som danskere i stand til at benytte sig af dem.

Respondenterne er dog ikke hindret på nogen måde i at tage beslutninger og handle efter egen fri

vilje, da de alle ytrer, at hvis ikke de finder arbejde, så vil de søge ind på et universitet igen eller

blot forlade Danmark for at finde arbejde andetsteds. Endvidere føler respondenterne at de åbent

kan være bulgarere og rumænere i Danmark, og flere af dem mener at ansvaret for at integrere sig

ligger hos dem, da de er søgt til Danmark for at få arbejde. De føler sig derfor ikke pressede til at

ændre eller skjule deres kulturelle identitet.

VIA har haft en stor indflydelse på respondenternes opfattelse af danskere og indtrykkene derfra

er mangfoldige. Således har VIA været med til at skabe en forestilling om danskere, at de

diskriminerer og føler sig overlegen udlændinge. En holdning der ikke har ændret sig efter at de er

kommet på dagpenge som arbejdsløse. Der er en klar opfattelse af, at de som udlændinge bliver

diskrimineret og marginaliseret i det danske samfund, fordi der ikke er plads til folk der ikke kan

dansk og har en anden nationalitet. En opfattelse der går imod EU-lovgivningen om at EU-

borgeren i jobsøgningsprocessen ikke må blive diskrimineret i forhold til statsborgere. Således er

28

respondenterne overbeviste om, at næsten alle deres danske klassekammerater har fået et

arbejde, blot fordi de ikke er udlændinge. Det er dog ikke alle danskere der har noget imod

udlændinge, mener de, og flere af respondenterne kommer også med historier om flinke vejledere

eller gode danske venner. Et af de store problemer med at finde arbejde, udover det forkerte syn

på udlændinge, er også et manglende netværk med danskere. Respondenterne er sikre på, at

danskere nemt får arbejde, fordi de netop har et netværk, som respondenterne ikke selv har

været i stand til at skabe. Kun Eliza har fået danske bekendtskaber, men hun fortæller også at det

ikke har været nemt.

Respondenterne føler sig ikke ønsket i Danmark. En følelse der kan variere alt efter

omstændighederne. Dog viser denne holdning, at interessen for at fastholde udenlandsk

arbejdskraft i Danmark ikke er slået igennem i denne gruppe. Konsekvensen er dog ikke et tydeligt

ønske om at forlade Danmark, og flere af respondenterne fortæller, at de hellere vil tage en

kandidat og derefter prøve igen. Kami nævner dog kort, at flere i hendes omgangskreds har givet

op pga. denne følelse af uønskethed og derfor har forladt landet. I spørgsmålet om hvordan

bulgarske og rumænske ledige dimittender opfatter deres integration i forbindelse med det

danske arbejdsmarked, vil jeg derfor konkludere, at de i højere grad er negativt integreret end

positivt. Respondenternes højeste ønske er at finde et arbejde og når dette mislykkedes, vil de

naturligvis blive frustrerede og lede efter årsager til dette. Denne frustration leder derfor til kritik

og forstærkes af deres kulturelle baggrund om at være negativ før man er positiv. Det er dog

vigtigt at have i mente, at integrationsprocessen også varierer alt efter hvor lang tid

respondenterne har været arbejdsløs og hvilken personlighed de har. Således er Eliza, Kami og

Ventsi mere negativt integreret end Roxi, Diana, Nick og Viktor.

412356

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6 Perspektivering Danmark vil i fremtiden mangle højtuddannet arbejdskraft og jeg har med denne opgave ville

belyse en af problemstillingerne ved dette ønske. Jeg har med denne opgave forsøgt at belyse de

vanskeligheder der kan opstå som udenlandsk dimittend i Horsens, og hvilke konsekvenser der

følger af en længerevarende marginaliseringsproces og diskrimination. Jeg har også forsøgt at

belyse, at selvom holdningen fra regeringens side er, at der skal fastholdes udenlandsk

arbejdskraft i Danmark, så er det stadigvæk svært for særlige grupper, som den bulgarske og

rumænske, at tro på denne holdning.

Jeg har med denne opgave lagt op til, at en kvalitativ undersøgelse kan belyse særlige aspekter ved

fastholdelse af udenlandsk arbejdskraft, da en sådan metode kan vise præcis hvor i

fastholdelsesprocessen integrationen er gået galt. Det er herunder interessant at gå videre med

undersøgelsen, ved også at lade den omfatte andre kulturer end blot den østeuropæiske, for

derved at undersøge om integrationen også er mangelfuld hvis man kommer fra Syd- eller

Vesteuropa. For ikke at nævne en komparativ undersøgelse med en fokusgruppe med personer i

arbejde.

30

7 Litteraturliste Bøger: Bunnage, D. (1998), Social integration hos Lockwood: Et spørgsmål om overensstemmelse på aktørniveau og på institutionelt niveau. I: Zeuner, Lilli mfl.: Sociologisk teori om social integration. København, Socialforskningsinstituttet, 1998. Tilgængelig på: http://www.sfi.dk/graphics/SFI/Pdf/Rapporter/1998/98-18.pdf [åbnet 30. marts 2014]. Hamburger, C. (1989), kapitel 2: Integrations- og assimilationspolitik – en teoretisk diskussion, Assimilation eller integration? Dansk indvandrerpolitik og tyrkiske kvinder

Mikkelsen, F. (2001), Integrationens paradoks. København, Catinét

Richie, J. & Lewis, J. (2003), Qualitative Research Practice. A Guide for Social Science Students and Researchers, London: Sage.

Rapporter, pressemeddelelser og internetpublikationer: DAMVAD (2013) Internationale studerendes karriereplaner. Tilgængelig på: http://ufm.dk/publikationer/2013/filer-2013/internationale-studerende-i-danmark-damvad-april-2013.pdf [åbnet 30. april 2014]. Danmarks Statistik (2011) Flere internationale studerende i Danmark. Tilgængelig på: http://www.dst.dk/pukora/epub/Nyt/2011/NR391.pdf [åbnet 30. marts 2014]. Erhvervs- og Vækstministeriet (2010) Handlingsplan for offensiv global markedsføring af Danmark 2011-2012. Tilgængelig på: http://www.evm.dk/publikationer/2010/~/media/oem/pdf/2010/publikationer-2010/handlingsplan-for-markedsforing-af-danmark-2011-2012.ashx [åbnet 28. marts 2014]. Oxford Research A/S and The Copenhagen Post (2010) The Expat Study 2010. Tilgængelig på: https://www.workindenmark.dk/~/media/Workindenmark/Dokumenter/News/THEEXPATSTUDY2010.ashx [åbnet 28. marts 2014]. Thuesen, F., Tørslev, M. K., og Jensen, T. G. (2011) Rekruttering og fastholdelse af højtuddannet arbejdskraft - Danmark, Norge, Holland, Storbritannien og Canada. København: Rosendahls – Schultz Grafisk A/S. Tilgængelig på: http://www.sfi.dk/rapportoplysninger-4681.aspx?Action=1&NewsId=3205&PID=9267 [åbnet 28. marts 2014].

31

Uddannelses- og Forskningsministeriet (2013) Internationale studerende vil blive og arbejde i

Danmark. [pressemeddelelse] 31. august. Tilgængelig på:

http://ufm.dk/aktuelt/pressemeddelelser/2013/internationale-studerende-vil-blive-og-arbejde-i-

danmark

[åbnet 30. marts 2014].

Udenrigsministeriet (2013) Europaudvalget 2013. Rådsmøde 3279 - RIA Bilag 1. Offentligt.

Tilgængelig på:

http://www.euo.dk/upload/application/pdf/4c6fce63/3279raad1.pdf?download=1#page=19

[åbnet 30. april 2014].

Internetsider

EU-oplysningen (2012) BNP pr. indbygger. Tilgængelig på:

http://www.eu-oplysningen.dk/fakta/tal/BNPcapita/

[åbnet 30. april 2014].

EU-oplysningen (2014) EU-borgernes ret til fri bevægelighed. Tilgængelig på:

http://www.eu-oplysningen.dk/emner/detindremarked/borgernesfribevaegelighed/

[åbnet 30. marts 2014].

Europa (2014) Universitet - Afgifter og økonomisk støtte. Tilgængelig på:

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/education/university/fees-and-financial-help/index_da.htm

[åbnet 30. marts 2014].

VIA Campus Horsens (2014) Strategi. Tilgængelig på:

http://www.viauc.dk/horsens/omos/Sider/strategi.aspx

[åbnet 30. april 2014].

Bilag 1 – Interviewguide

Område Spørgsmål Tid

Præsentation og indledende spørgsmål

Præsentation af projektet Præsentation af interviewets forløb.

Optages med diktafon.

Snakke tydeligt og ikke i munden på hinanden.

Forløb: Spørgsmål, pause, spørgsmål.

Når I debatterer, vil jeg gerne have at I uddyber og beskriver.

Introduktionsrunde: Spise færdigt, præsentation af den enkelte.

Alder, nationalitet, uddannelsesbaggrund, arbejdsløs hvor længe og hvilke bestræbelser har vedkommende gjort sig?

10 min. (+ 10 min.)

System integration

Does your educational background differ from the one your Danish class mates have?

Is it important that it does/ does not in connection to finding a job I DK?

Did you and do you have the same rights as your Danish fellow class mates in all aspects during your study and now as an unemployed? – What does that make you feel?

Are you under the same conditions to find a job in DK as your fellow Danish class mates?

Which obligations do you have as an unemployed in DK?

Does the Danish system make it harder for you to find a job? (Language barrier, bureaucracy, paper work).

What does the government/commune do to help you find a job?

20 min. (+ 30 min.)

Social integration

Are you being treated differently than your Danish class mates finding a job? – Why?

Is it important what your cultural background is in connection to getting a job in DK?

Do you feel wanted in DK?

What is the difference between being a Chinese, Swedish, Spanish or Bulgarian/Romanian job applicant in DK?

Have you ever felt that you didn’t get a job interview or a job because you are a foreigner?

Can you be a Bulgarian/Romanian in DK as a job applicant or do you need to set your native culture aside?

20 min. (+ 50 min.)

Pause 10 min.

(+ 60 min.)

Uddybende spørgsmål: Danskkundskaber

Have you taken Danish lessons? – Why?

Do you think it is relevant to know Danish if you want to have a job in DK?

Does this intrude with your cultural background?

15 min. (+ 1 t. 15 min.)

Uddybende spørgsmål: Netværk:

Did you get a network in DK you can use in the search for a job?

What differs between your network and those of your Danish class mates?

What is the importance of a network in connection to getting a job?

15. min. (+ 1 t. 30 min.)

Oplevet integration

How do you experience the Danish job market overall?

Does your class mates from VIA have a job right now? Why/ why not?

Have you thought about leaving Denmark because of this experience?

10 min. (+ 1 t. 40 min.)

Opklarende spørgsmål

Could you have done more to be employed today? – What?

Do you want to be employed? Why?

Is it unfair that you are unemployed?

Do you know your rights as an EU-citizen in connection to the job market?

15. min. (+ 1 t. 55 min.)

Ekstra sidespørgsmål

How did you experience your time at VIA?

Did you ever feel like you got differential treatment at VIA because you were an international student?

Afrunding

Har I yderligere I føler der ikke er blevet snakket/spurgt om?

Ønsker du/I at være anonym?

Vil du/I gerne have en kopi af opgaven? (på dansk)

Tak for hjælpen.

5 min (+ 2 t.)

1

Bilag 2 – Transskription

Fokusgruppe interview d. 6.6.2014

Deltagere:

Anja Poulsen Interviewer

Erzsébet Pálhegyi (Eliza) Nationalitet: Rumænsk Alder: 35 Uddannelse: Mechanical Engineering og Value Chain Management fra VIA University College, Horsens. Samt IT og Ingeniøruddannelser fra Rumænien Arbejdsløs: Siden januar 2012 Mobil: 27219094 Mail: palhegyi.erzsebet@gmail.com

Diana Elena Matei Nationalitet: Rumænsk Alder: 25 Uddannelse: International Marketing Sales Management fra VIA University College, Horsens Arbejdsløs: Siden juli 2013 Mobil: 53378968 Mail: dyanna_ematei@hotmail.com

Roxana Dumitrascu (Roxi) Nationalitet: Rumænsk Alder: 24 Uddannelse: Global Business Engineering fra VIA University College, Horsens Arbejdsløs: Siden juli 2013 Mobil: 61732749 Mail: roxana2989@yahoo.com

Nikola Botzov (Nick) Nationalitet: Bulgarsk Alder: 23 Uddannelse: Global Business Engineering fra VIA University College, Horsens Arbejdsløs: Siden januar 2014 Mobil: 71851214 Mail: nbotsov@gmail.com

Ventsislav Nurkov (Ventsi) Nationalitet: Bulgarsk Alder: 24 Uddannelse: Mechanical Engineer fra VIA University College, Horsens

2

Arbejdsløs: 1½ år Mobil: 52683329 Mail: ventsislav.nurkov@gmail.com

Kameliya Stoyanova (Kami) Nationalitet: Bulgarsk Alder: 24 Uddannelse: Bygningskonstruktør fra VIA University College, Horsens Arbejdsløs: Siden juni 2012 Mobil: 50243250 Mail: kamistoyanova@gmail.com

Viktor Donkov Nationalitet: Bulgarsk Alder: 23 Uddannelse: Mechanical Engineer fra VIA University College, Horsens Arbejdsløs: Siden februar 2014 Mobil: 71597943 Mail: victor_donkov@yahoo.com

Herudover var Evgeniya Garkova, Valeri Bozhinov og Raluca Sevcencu til stede. De arbejder alle i Siemens

Wind Power, Brande og jeg ville derfor ikke benytte mig af disse til interviewet. De havde dog bedt om

tilladelse til at observere interviewet, hvilket jeg gav dem lov til.

3

Anja: So, this is for my bachelor project, as you probably know, and I am very interested about the 1

integration of eastern Europeans in Denmark, so you don’t leave the country anyway, right? And my 2

interest comes from all the negative feedback I have gotten from you, which has made me, like, think 3

about… what are we doing wrong and is it… is it Denmark or is it… is it because you don’t experience the 4

whole package of what we can offer. These kinds of things. And because a bachelor project is so narrow, 5

my project is narrowed down to only your opinions, only your story. So, I am not interested about what is 6

actually out there to be offered, what you have missed, but I am interested in how you have perceived your 7

stay in Denmark, and after your story, I am gonna try and analyze how integrated you are in that aspect. So, 8

yes… and because I am recording with this diktafon, of course it is very important that you speak clearly 9

and loud and that you wait for your turn to speak also. Because, when I have to write everything 10

afterwards, it’s gonna be very difficult for me to hear, if three people are speaking at the same time and if 11

you have been whispering. So that is very important, cause otherwise this interview will be in vain. I’m 12

gonna ask you questions, and I want you to talk, and I want you to discuss and debate, and I will be 13

listening, and if I feel like you are going a little bit out of the subject of the question, I will be trying to draw 14

you back, and if I feel like somebody is not participating I will try and direct the, my question to a specific 15

person so everybody gets to talk a little. Because, some people are more shy than others. Otherwise, speak 16

from your heart, and don’t be afraid of being rude or hurting my feelings or something like that… cause I’m 17

a smart person and its okay. I won’t get mad, and… eat and drink and be happy and do it as quit as possible 18

while you’re doing it and I will be fine. Are you ready to get started? Yes? I will try and do it in two hours, 19

let’s see. I have no idea how many minutes every question will take. That’s all on you. So, okay, let’s start 20

with the easy questions. I want you all of you to tell me your age, nationality, your education and how long 21

you have been in Denmark and how long you have been unemployed. Its five questions, I’m sorry, but they 22

are very easy. Shall we start with you, Eliza? 23

Eliza: Okay, so I am Erzsébet, Eliza, and I am 35. I come from Romania. I have been looking for a job since 24

January 2013 after I lost my job as a production engineer. 25

Anja: Did you lose it here in Denmark? 26

Eliza: Yeah. 27

Anja: Do you have an education here from Denmark? 28

Eliza: I have two educations from Denmark. One as a mechanical engineer and the other one in Value Chain 29

Management, but I also have other educations from home in engineering and IT. 30

Anja: And you got those from VIA? 31

Eliza: Two from VIA, and two from Romania. 32

Anja: Okay. Yeah, Diana? 33

Diana: Yeah… Uhm, I have a bachelor degree in International Marketing Sales Management. I have been 34

unemployed since last year, July. After I finished my education I entered in A-kasse program and I am still 35

doing a lot of internships and particular courses, and I don’t know exactly how to say that, but for example 36

they meet me and we talk and I am redoing my CV and trying to do it according to their wishes and so on. 37

4

There are things like, you have to do it like, one page, they tell me like, three pages and that is how the 38

meetings are going. Yeah, and I am 25. 39

Anja: That education is also from Denmark, from VIA? 40

Diana: Yeah from VIA. 41

Anja: Yes, and Roxi? 42

Roxi: Yeah, I am 24 years old, and I finished last July Global Business Engineering, and I have been looking 43

for a job since. And it was all in Denmark, the whole education. 44

Nick: Yeah, I am 23 years old and I graduated as well from Global Business Engineering this January, so I 45

have been unemployed and looking for a job for little bit over two months now, and so far I have had no 46

success in particular. Still am I just starting to search now, so I am hoping for the best, that I will find 47

something that fits my background here in Denmark. 48

Ventsi: Ready? So my name is Ventsi, I am almost 24 now, unemployed for 1½ years, graduated Mechanical 49

Engineering 1½ years ago. Yep, and I am studying Danish right now. It’s what everybody is counseling me to 50

do, cause, apparently this is the only thing I am missing in order to get a job, so moving forward. 51

Anja: Yeah, okay, and your education is from VIA also right? 52

Ventsi: Yep, yep, full degree. 53

Kami: Yeah, my name is Kameliya, I am 24, I am a constructing architect, bygningskonstruktør, yeah and I 54

graduated in June 2012, so I have been unemployed for a really long time now. More than 1½ years. I can’t 55

say like why exactly I can’t find a job, because I actually finished like fifth module of Danish and I am going 56

to module six which is to give (utydelig) classes (utydelig) I have quite high level of Danish so (utydelig). I 57

don’t think Danish is the problem all the time… 58

Ventsi: Me neither ( alle griner). 59

Kami: … and yeah, it’s been like a really long time and I get this unemployment benefits and I go to 60

different kinds of consultation with my A-kasse or job-center or God knows what institutions.. only I… went 61

to so many. Yeah, and I still haven’t found a job. My motivations went from so motivated to barely 62

motivated, now I am looking for kind a like, all kinds of jobs even from like salesman in a shop, that will just 63

have nothing to do with my education, though I was so motivated that I could find something to do with my 64

education after I finish… also when you study here, they are kind a like telling you “of course you are gonna 65

find job afterwards, cause this education is so good…” and I don’t know, and everything and then you can’t 66

really find a job and it is so hard, I don’t know. 67

Anja: …and it was from VIA University 68

Kami: Yes, I graduted VIA, it was full time degree how is it called? 69

Anja: …and did you tell us your nationality? 70

Kami: Bulgarian, I forgot to say, yes. 71

5

Anja: Well, we will get to all this (utydelig). 72

Viktor: So I am Viktor. I am 23. I am Bulgarian. I finished Mechanical Engineering in VIA this January and 73

have been unemployed since, well yes. Not really a long time. 74

Anja: Okay, yeah. Very short. Okay, my questions doesn’t really have a red thread, so I am just gonna, you 75

know, throw something at the table, I hope it is okay with you… 76

Eliza: I made a mistake. It was 2012, so it’s two years. 77

Anja: You have been unemployed since 2012? 78

Eliza: Yes, January, so not 13. 79

Anja: Okay, it’s now on sound. Okay, so, my questions now is gonna be a little bit from the system, so and 80

the question is: Does your educational background differ from the one your Danish class mates have? And I 81

am referring to the Danish people that was in your class when you graduated. So I can compare that, you 82

know? So, does your educational background differ from the one your Danish class mates have? And I am 83

also, you know, thinking about; you come from a different country, which means that you had an 84

elementary school that is different, you had gymnasium that’s different. So I want your opinion on, are you 85

equally, are you at the same level as the Danish class mates you had when you graduated? So what do you 86

think? 87

Kami: Well, honestly because I have learned about a bit of the Danish educational system and etc. etc. 88

These vocational schools e.g. what we have in Bulgaria there bit on a higher level than the erhvervsskole 89

what you have here. So e.g. I have finished some vocational school and it still gives me the possibility to 90

study in University afterwards and it’s like, I not only have my profession, but I have also have all the other 91

knowledge what people have when they go to a regular gymnasium e.g. So, yeah, and I don’t know how 92

different was my background, as in my class there were only three Danish people and I think they were 93

craftsmen before, but I also had a similar education, I don’t know if that was the reason I was actually 94

accepted to study this, but yeah, but not many people foreigners have a studied for a craftsman before or 95

has actually have studied anything to do with constructing or architecture or something. I think I was one 96

of the few. There were not so many in my class, we were actually four classes, which started together. 97

International classes. 98

Ventsi: Well first of all, when we came first to Denmark, actually it was me and Viktor; we arrived in a class 99

where it was totally separate from the Danish group, like we had an international group and a Danish 100

group… (utydelig) during the first two semesters, I couldn’t really get impression on any Dane, you don’t 101

know anybody who was Danish since maybe one-two years after I came, but that is a different subject. 102

When I came like, our first two semesters I realized that actually what they were teaching us, we had a class 103

called ‘Mathematics’ or ‘Science and Engineering Science’ something like this . They were teaching us stuff 104

we used to study in 9th or 10th grade. That’s when you are 15-16 back in Bulgaria I have studied, graduating 105

the technical gymnasium so like you said… 106

Kami: Yeah, like vocational school again. This is the biggest difference. 107

Ventsi: Like, most of us have a craftsman background; do you know what I mean? 108

6

Anja: Yeah, I have heard that you have a higher level of math in Bulgaria. 109

Ventsi: Yep, actually now I am following one erhverv for improving my Danish and also they offer there, 110

mathematics and chemistry and biology they offer me like “Do you want to go to mathematics, since you 111

cannot get a job, maybe you need to go to mathematics”. And I am like, really? You want me to go. I have 112

graduated from Mechanical Engineering here, you want me to go and divide… how is it called… (Kami: two 113

and two or something)… yeah, two plus two equals four. Okay man, we studied this in first grade. 114

Anja: So what are you saying here? (Ventsi: I’m saying…) That you feel like you have a background that is 115

better than the Danish one when you started or when you graduated or? 116

Kami: It’s not the same maybe, I don’t know… 117

Ventsi: I believe I am a little bit more qualified talking like my professional qualifications, maybe not my 118

personal qualifications because I am coming from a culture that is very very far away from Denmark, and I 119

understand life differently. Do you know what I mean? So I think that is what creates the problem, the 120

cultural boundaries which we have, we cannot cross. 121

Anja: Do you agree? 122

Diana: To a certain point. I could also say like, in Romania e.g. we were more focused on theories rather 123

than practicing and first semester here for me was quite a challenge, because we were supposed to actually 124

apply all of these theories to certain company, and I don’t know, for me it was quite enough to just learn 125

the theories, know them and probably they would give us an example, I mean they would give us some 126

example, but we weren’t supposed to memorize them or something like that, so in our country you could 127

say like 80 % is theory and 20 % is practiced, I suppose probably it is almost the same In Bulgaria (Kami og 128

Ventsi siger ja) and it was really a great challenge for me, but afterwards I started to actually… after I got 129

my first 02, I realized, okay I really have to, you know start applying them in a way, and, but it took me a 130

while, and I really have to say that, and I remember my marketing teacher she was very pissed and she 131

accused us of cheating on the subject, she used, you know, different words such as ‘bloody hell’ and you 132

know for us, we felt like very marginalized: Danes and the others (Kami og Ventsi er enige). That’s how we 133

felt and… 134

Kami: Maybe we can say like Scandinavian and others, because the Icelandic people also get a bit of 135

another treatment. I think. 136

Diana: Hmm, not really I… 137

Anja: What do you mean? You are in different class rooms, or? 138

Diana: No, we were, we were actually in the same class room, of course in an international… First, when I 139

started is was only AP degree3 it was supposed to be only for two years and I applied only for that one, I 140

didn’t really wanted to get a bachelor, I wanted to go back and finish my studies back in Romania, because I 141

also started an education back there, but then I changed my mind and I went for a BA as well. Anyhow, in 142

the first semester we had different domains to study, and since then like our class, nationalities, 143

3 Diplomuddannelse i International Marketing Management.

7

nationalities in our class diversification, varied, because there were people that transferred and there were 144

others that didn’t and we had specific like this AP degree in English and AP degree like in Danish, but there 145

are also Danes who wanted to have it in English, and they told us, like don’t expect us like if we are going, if 146

we are having this exam, it will be in Danish for us, it’s also English, we wanted to take it in English. Nobody 147

said that, but still they wanted to mention… Anyhow, my point was that after my first semester, the exams, 148

after the exams, when we got our results, we were like Danes here and nationalities here (danskere over 149

udlændinge I en kolonne), and we were in auditorium A and Trine stood like here… 150

Anja: I don’t follow… do you mean that the Danish got better grades than you or did you (Diana: Yes.) have 151

different collums (Diana: Yes.) for your grades. 152

Diana: Yes, cause Trine said something like, I will never forget, and I suppose you will not see Trine, but 153

yeah, she said like “You did a great job Danes”, you whatever, and then “I am so disappointed in you” the 154

other half, you know? And of course our motivation from here, got like here (Diana viser fra høj til lav med 155

hånden). Probably there were people that copied and whatever cheated, but you don’t have to tell us like, 156

we were cheaters and Danes were like so good. 157

Anja: I have to stop you a little bit here, because we are talking about your experiences from school and I 158

have to go over to the work and being unemployed, but did this give you a feeling after you graduated, did 159

it give you a bad start in a way? 160

Diana: Yes. 161

Roxi: I would also like to say, first I also relate to Ventsi. Also in my high school I had a really high level of 162

math and when we started there were almost no entry requirements, so when we started math from really 163

one person (utydelig), but another difference, okay, yeah as you also said, in Romania we had very 164

theoretical, I was very good at theory and doing stuff by myself, especially by myself, but working in group 165

and going and talking in front of people and let’s do something, let’s try to be leader… 166

Ventsi: Yeah in the beginning it was a bit weird wasn’t it, work in a group, really? 167

Kami: Yeah, it was like an educational shock you’re thinking, instead of a cultural shock it was an 168

educational shock. 169

Roxi: Yeah, and then when I went in a group I was always shy and I had to overcome these fears, but also 170

another thing is that, most of us that came over just after high school, and many of my Danish class mates, 171

they were 25-26, they knew better what they wanted, and this education was not very precise, it was, you 172

know, very wide, so maybe they were… they knew better what they wanted. Even such a very wary 173

subjects of education and I didn’t know really, because e.g. from Romania I was used to that, yeah you 174

learn this, you do that you will be good, but here you have to be more proactive, you know, we had these 175

courses, you had to be more proactive in order to choose, so maybe I wasn’t prepared for that, but now 176

when I look back I knew I was lacking this knowledge or awareness, and the Danes were… so they, maybe 177

they weren’t so, you know, theory good, but they had this practice and they also had more age. 178

Anja: Yeah, okay. So that’s the difference when you graduate? 179

Roxi: Yeah. 180

8

Kami: Yeah, I came for us, when we start, I’m like first semester we have a lot of meetings with our head 181

teacher, I don’t know how to call him “How do you feel, is everything okay?” I don’t know how to call this 182

meetings, and he ask me ”Do you have problems, there are so many people up your class that are so much 183

older than you” and I ask, how old are they? I didn’t even notice that they are so much older, but then, 184

yeah they were a lot older than me, and like later when trying to find work I actually found out that in 185

Denmark it is quite uncommon for a person to be under 25 and have an education and be a professionalist 186

in an area, a specialist in an area, it is very weird and this is actually one of the reason I have removed my 187

birthday date from my CV, because being… I was 22 when I graduated, they kind a like told me “Nobody is 188

gonna give you work, you are just 22” like they don’t even believe you can do the work, or something. So 189

age was something quite interesting, you know, something that I haven’t thought about. I can see this in 190

many eastern European countries, because we do come after high school and for us it is normal to just 191

keep on studying and then at some point you finish and you are a professionalist in your area and 192

everything, but then here is a bit different. 193

Anja: Do you have anything to add? 194

Eliza: I have something. 195

Anja: Let’s go to the next question, because otherwise… unless very short? 196

Eliza: Yes, I try to make it short. Actually I also have a bachelor and Master’s Degree from home, and I must 197

say, it is more practical than in Denmark. You also learn the theory. The thing is, that back home, you have 198

lots of subjects that you have to be good at. In Denmark you have just a few each year, and then it is easy 199

to choose your path, but when you have so many choices and you keep each choices up till high school and 200

even beyond, then you have more options in our countries. Here you don’t have so many. You already start 201

focusing on your goal and indeed I agree with the thing that Danes are here and foreigners are here and I 202

try to sit with them in class rooms, they are separating. If you try to sit with them, next to them, most of 203

the time, they also say, this is our place, get up. I got this. Or, in Aarhus University, which is much 204

theoretical, much more theoretical than the Romanian ones, no more not so practical at all, it is the same 205

thing, and if you sit on a place, if you sit the next day also, they make sure they move to another place. So 206

it’s, it’s such a… and there are only a few Danes who really accepts us as foreigners. 207

Kami: Yeah, I think it actually, what she is saying, what all of us are saying, that was something quite 208

important, cause our integration here, was kind a like jeopardized… from our… when we started our 209

education… we couldn’t really get into, I don’t know, the life here or something, it was quite hard maybe 210

afterwards to get into labor market situation, or something. 211

Anja: Yeah, okay, awesome thanks for the conclusion. Uhm… Did you and do you have the same rights as 212

your Danish fellow class mates in all aspects during your study and now as an unemployed? 213

Nick: I believe that during the studies, since some of the other people mentioned, the Danes in my program 214

as well, they were quite older and they knew maybe… we had the same rights, but the point is that they 215

better knew what their rights were, than us. So, it’s not that we didn’t have the same rights, because we 216

didn’t know, maybe we didn’t exercise all of the rights that we had. And now having graduated, me 217

personally taking unemployment benefits, I hear that some Danes who graduated also recently, they are 218

taking the same, so I believe yeah, that we do have the same rights, but now after having been here for 219

9

some time, I better realize what my options are and what I can do. So, I believe it is not about having the 220

same rights or not, it’s about (Kami: knowing them) being aware that you have the same rights. 221

Kami: The lack of information… 222

Nick: Yeah, exactly. 223

Ventsi: And I can also add. In my opinion, again I’m going back to school. In my opinion when we were 224

studying together, cause after our third semester they merged two classes together, which I was talking 225

about earlier, so we came like international and Danes all together, and I could feel, really I could feel how 226

the teachers, they were really encouraging more the Danish group and they were working more with the 227

Danish group. The internationals, we were just sitting like “what is happening now?” E.g. we sit in a class 228

and it is an English class, we are supposed to speak in English, study in English. A Dane raises his hand; he is 229

talking something in Danish, asking a question apparently about the subject in which we’re studying right 230

now, why shouldn’t I be able to benefit from this question? The teacher answering back in Danish. Why?! 231

Kami: This actually has… many people have told me… as I said … we really don’t have that many Danes in 232

our classes, but I have also, before I was studying marketing or other subjects which I have experienced the 233

same; a question being asked in Danish and then answered in Danish in a class which was supposed to be 234

held in English, but this is kind a like not so nice. 235

Ventsi: Nope… 236

Diana: I experienced the same 237

Kami: Let’s not call it like with harsher words, but let’s say that is a bit of inequality maybe. 238

Anja: And right now as an unemployed, do you feel like you have the same rights as the Danish people? 239

Viktor: Yes, and as an unemployed I do, well, but we didn’t say that we didn’t have the same rights before. 240

We are not aware of how to exercise them. 241

Anja: Yeah and why don’t you know how to exercise them? 242

Kami: The life of information. Here it is quite hard to find out something. Like, even if you have heard about 243

something which you are not quite sure which it is about you go e.g. to the commune, lets’ say, and you ask 244

and then, they are not helping you there. They are giving you some kind of a flowy answer about bla bla bla 245

and then you are send home having no idea, still, what is this thing? Is it so important? Do I really have to 246

do it or etc. etc. It is actually quite hard to find information here, and like or go and ask for information and 247

receive the right information what you should have. This is actually a lot of our friends have helped us, like 248

(utydelig) one or two semesters, all of them have experienced already something. It’s very helpful while 249

sharing the information find out many of our rights. Let’s say. 250

Viktor: For instance, we were not told that we are eligible for unemployment benefits by the university. 251

Anja: Okay. 252

Ventsi: No, nobody told us this. 253

10

Viktor: Nobody told us this. 254

Ventsi: We heard it by accident. 255

Anja: What is it, is it A-kasse? (Alle: Ja.) 256

Viktor: We learned this from other people. 257

Nick: E.g. when I was about to graduate and I knew about the possibility to take an A-kasse, so I didn’t 258

because I didn’t have the information brought to me, I had to ask some people. I asked Ventsi e.g. because I 259

knew he had already researched in that area, and I gained the knowledge about the unemployment 260

benefits from him instead of some institution which… it would be better if somebody would let everybody 261

know “hey you graduated, you have the option to take unemployment benefits, you have the option to 262

study something else, you have this and that. That is what you can choose from.” 263

Kami: …If you are gonna help you find a work and it’s... It was actually quite a surprise to understand that 264

this job center is functioning when you actually don’t have work after you’re graduated, or something, 265

because I went to the job center so many times, while I was studying to help me find some part time job or 266

something, they kind a like send you home, and you can’t even go after the information desk or something. 267

Ventsi: And all the time the excuse is “You don’t speak Danish” (Kami: Yes.). Well okay I speak Danish now 268

(Kami: Yeah). What’s up? 269

Eliza: No, also that they tell you that “Your Danish is not enough” so each time, even your Danish is very 270

good, and I have been working with Danes in a company with customers and all that, and then she tells me 271

“Your Danish is not perfect” but the Danes Danish is not perfect (folk griner) you know? And then… 272

Ventsi: They come with me to my class and improve their Danish, (utydelig) (folk griner). 273

Eliza: Yes, and also e.g. from A-kasse. They don’t tell everybody that they have the rights to get the 274

payment for the trip, if you have to go to Copenhagen and back to an interview. I asked several times. I paid 275

two trips to Copenhagen, but they didn’t tell me that they would pay for that. 276

Kami: I will give you another example. Like, after I graduated I had to change my residence permit, because 277

I am no longer a student and it has to be extended, and then I think from a month or two I send, I don’t 278

know how many e-mails, to how many institutions and how many people I bothered asking; where do I 279

have to go and what document should I have with me? Then in the end I went to some international citizen 280

center in Aarhus, again not having the right documents, although like few people have told me what 281

documents should I have and bla bla bla, I went there and then the lady there again “You don’t have the 282

right documents with you”. Mean, this is something super important, this is my residence permit. There are 283

deadlines and you will have to change it etc, and then I can’t get information from people like the 284

kommune here or something I… okay this is a thing very important information should come maybe in a 285

folder when you are about to graduate that’s… everything about A-kasse, about skat, about residence 286

permit, I don’t know, work permit or whatever what you really have to be aware of if you decide actually to 287

stay in Denmark after you graduate… that’s, I don’t know. 288

11

Ventsi: Yeah, nobody actually, e.g. I was expecting that when we graduate as a class, as a group, that, like, 289

the teachers or someone from the school they would gather us all together like internationals and explain 290

to us say “Guys, do you want to stay in Denmark? Do you want to go out? Do you want to go to Mars? 291

What do you want to do now?” You need, these information are really missing. 292

Kami: Okay, as I said, even like folder or something, would have been really helpful. 293

Eliza: Come on, when we finished, the graduation ceremony, the manager of VIA told us internationals 294

“Now you have a good degree, now you can go home”. 295

Ventsi: Really? (Alle griner). What if I want to stay? 296

Kami: That is not so smart, I mean… 297

Anja: Are you kidding me? 298

Eliza: No, there were many! (Folk griner) 299

Anja: Did he say that in front of all the graduates and the parents in front…? 300

Eliza: Yes, yes, yes! 301

Anja: Okay, that’s really impressive. 302

Diana: Maybe, he was trying to make a funny joke, or? 303

Eliza: No it wasn’t, it wasn’t like… (utydelig, alle snakker)…. with a good degree. 304

Anja: I don’t think he meant… maybe he didn’t mean “Go back to Romania” but “Go back to your 305

apartment here in Horsens and be happy?” 306

Ventsi: And be happy… (griner og laver rygetegn). 307

(Alle snakker) 308

Anja: But if you understand it that way, then it’s bad. 309

Eliza: Everybody, because we were laughing this is a message (utydelig). 310

(Alle griner) 311

Ventsi: Good message. 312

Roxi: Even so, you can interpret it and… 313

Anja: Yeah, yeah, precisely, yeah, yeah. 314

Diana: Yeah, but he teaches in English. It should be his own responsibility (Roxi: Oh, come on!) what he is 315

saying. I mean, come on. 316

Eliza: he had a very good English. 317

12

Diana: I’m sorry, but when you are a teacher… 318

Roxi: Yes, but that is what you would expect, but what happens really. 319

Diana: My mum is a teacher, give me a break. 320

Roxi: Come on, let’s not go in there. 321

Anja: Okay, I didn’t hear what you were talking about, but let’s just go on to the next question. Okay, a 322

different angle; Are you under the same conditions to find a job in Denmark as your fellow Danish class 323

mates? 324

Alle: No. 325

Kami: Of course it’s harder for us. 326

Ventsi: Of course. We need to work maybe 20 times more. 327

Anja: Why? 328

Ventsi: Well, because first of all when I... (Flere vil gerne have ordet) Okay, I’ll start… First I was sending out 329

applications. You know naturally you start connecting by e-mail. Everybody has a computer, everybody has 330

a smart device. So, I was starting to send applications in English n o a n s w e r a t a l l. Maybe I send 100 331

applications. No answer from none of them. Okay, 100 is a bit overestimated, but still I didn’t get any, any, 332

any answer. So, you know, I was a bit desperate for a few months, and that I start okay, okay, okay I will 333

start writing in Danish, then I started getting results. Very, very little results, but still I got them, you know? 334

I still got an answer “Thank you for your e-mail” so WUHU! Very happy. So yeah, if anybody can add 335

something. 336

Nick: Yeah, so to add on that. When you are looking for a job it is known that around 60 or 70% out there 337

are unsolicited and since Danes have been here all their life, they manage to build up more wide 338

professional network than we are, and there for a lot more of these job offerings, which are unsolicited, go 339

by then, and they can run them through and choose something from these while we are mostly relying on 340

the solicited applications, or if we by any chance hear something from somebody else about something 341

unsolicited, but this… much less than Danes has the ability to. 342

Kami: I think what the biggest benefit what we are missing, is that we don’t have our families here. This is 343

like the easiest way to find a job, especially if it is your first job after graduation, like your mum, your uncle 344

or whatever, maybe has a friend to a friend who has a company. Of course, they maybe let you work there 345

as a practical or an intern for a few months or something, but this would help you find the next real job, 346

you know, something… here I don’t have anyone to count on, just myself and apparently myself is not 347

doing a very good job. 348

Ventsi: Don’t be so hard on yourself. 349

Kami: This is something that we miss a lot. We just have our friends and maybe like our teachers or 350

something. This is like, maybe not such a strong network as Danes have here of course. 351

Anja: Are there more things? 352

13

Kami: Yeah, like nationality, language, age, I don’t know so many things. As I’ve said I removed my age… A 353

friend of mine said to remove my nationality from my CV, as many… Also like, I’ve heard about this with the 354

names that, if I change my last name into a bit of a sounding like a Danish name, I would actually get a job, 355

because they are, I don’t know, afraid of my eastern European name or something. I mean, there are so 356

many things that I have heard about and I feel so… I can’t believe that this is true… especially this about the 357

language. Okay, I understand that it is very important to have a very good Danish here, but still. If your 358

Danish is not perfect… well every foreigner here can speak at least three other languages. This is such a 359

good benefit and then a Dane can speak Danish and maybe a bit of broken English and then, how is this a 360

benefit for the company you know? When we are speaking about languages. And then this about the 361

nationality, that is pure discrimination, so I’m not even wanna start the topic, because… it’s really very 362

hurtfull. And then about the age, as I… this was something very new for me. I don’t know how to comment 363

about it, but I guess it is just cultural differences about the age. I don’t know. Maybe some employers will 364

trust a bit of younger person to work in their company, but yeah. 365

Anja: Do you… any of you have any comments? 366

Eliza: Actually, I… what I experienced… I am the oldest here, let’s say, the companies don’t have problems 367

with my age. They have problems with my nationality and the persons who are around me, who are not 368

Danes, are more concerned about my age when they say “Ah, that’s why you didn’t get the job” but as I 369

see, it’s not the language, that I don’t speak Danish, it’s basically the nationality and the lack of this 370

network. But, we also talked about this once in a train (tiltænkt mig), you as a Dane you were also stressed 371

about this, why can’t I focus on my studies, why do I have to network? (Anja: Yes) Because it is not fair, if 372

you are good at what you are doing, why should that matter, whom do you know? 373

Anja: Yeah, there is gonna be some questions about networking later. Eh, Roxi you had something? 374

Roxi: Yeah, about this nationalities thing, at the last A-kasse meeting I was told at least, if I ever get to an 375

interview at least, try to begin it in Danish, so I can show that I can at least some Da… even though I am 376

pretty good in Danish, because some small companies they might be worried that if they are all Danes and 377

e.g. if it’s lunch break and they speak Danish and they joke, they should at least be able to, you know, join 378

in and integrate, because I think they care about this, because if all of them are Danes and you are just 379

there… even though… yeah, it gets awkward sometimes and difficult… 380

Anja: So are you talking about a future job? If you don’t know Danish, you won’t be able to be integrated in 381

the group? Is that what you are talking about? That’s why you need Danish? 382

Diana: Maybe, you will get, but it will be hard and because I think even somebody at A-kasse told me like 383

“Yeah at lunch break they will speak Danish and they will joke, and…” and I kinda understand this… and I 384

think as a foreigner maybe they see that e.g. my position probably there are tens of hundreds more people 385

like me and probably I will have to be really impressive or really cool so they will like “Yeah, this foreigner, I 386

mean…”. 387

Anja: Yeah, yeah… 388

Ventsi: He is really extraordinary. 389

14

Roxi: Yeah, extraordinary, she will be a great add, but I think they do, but you need help and they will need 390

support, so you can go there. They would choose somebody better. 391

Eliza: I have been also to some interviews. My procedure is by calling them. I talk in Danish… as convincing 392

as I can be and what I have seen, what doesn’t work at interviews is, when they ask you “Can you do this” 393

you analyze and you have to be very sure of what you answer. In our countries they teach you modesty and 394

being… “Okay I am not really sure, but I can try”. Here it is not a good answer. You have to say “Yes, of 395

course. And what about that, can I help you with that and that”. You have to be proactive during the 396

interview. You read the announcement and, ah, they need this and this and then when you write the 397

application, you don’t use the same words, you just give an example of what shows that you have done 398

that. And then you have a chance to be invited… to the interview, and… yes, but you have to be, you have 399

to have this attitude. This is what the Danes have. Some of them have no idea, at the moment when they 400

say “Of course I am good at that” have no idea about that subject. I have seen this many times, but they 401

have this… 402

Ventsi: But then when you go out and when you actually need to do it with your two hands, what happens 403

then? 404

(Utydelig) 405

Eliza: You know, it was a strange thing what I have seen in my company, where I worked. There were some 406

who had no i… the… e.g. the guy who was in the IT, the head of the IT, he had no idea about that. 407

Ventsi: So how is he head of the IT? (griner) 408

Eliza: He was friends with the boss, and then, who took the, he was good at putting the blame on others. 409

You know, finding a s… if, because of that is because of that and he was good at this and he stayed in the 410

company for more than two years. 411

Ventsi: I see. (griner) Very well. It’s good to know. In fact, that information is very good to know, for me, as 412

a young specialist. 413

Eliza: You have to be… In Romania, you don’t go… for instance, I have seen this when I was searching a job 414

in cleaning or in factories. You go once; you give your CV and your dates. This is what you do back home, 415

and you wait for them to call, and you don’t bother them too often, because that’s… Then they get angry 416

and they make everything poss… (utydelig). Here it’s different. Here they would like to see you every day if 417

possible, showing that you are interested and you are, you know like (utydelig). 418

Ventsi: Yeah, but did you know what, also… because I mentioned I go to Danish lessons. My teacher told 419

me “Yeah you have to do this, but not too much.” Because apparently Danish they like have their own 420

space as everybody… 421

(utydelig) 422

Eliza: Not their space, but for companies you have to push all the time; You are interested, you are 423

interested! 424

Ventsi: Yes, but finally, it’s a company, but then you are communicating with a person. You know? 425

15

(utydelig) 426

Kami: As we can say, there are so many cultural differences here that… actually all of these courses that we 427

are offered from our job centres or our A-kasse or whatever, how to write a CV or go to… what is going on 428

in a job interview, is very helpful, because this is something new. I speak common now, is this how happen 429

in our country or this how it is happening in Denmark? There is difference about it and I have spoken to 430

actually, to many people because… we learn this from these meetings from A-kasse, job-centres etc. etc. 431

but also from our sprogcenter, where we go to the Danish lessons (Ventsi: bekræftende) there are a lot of 432

things what we learn about; Danish culture and… the life in Denmark and everything, only from this 433

language lesson, but when we are going to school, it is very hard to concentrate on the Danish. Not many 434

people, actually, know Danish at such a big level and can go very up in the modules or something, it is 435

when… one graduate then, they had… one has the time to actually devote to Danish or something, and… I 436

have spoken to many people, and we think it was actually gonna be very, very easier or better, if maybe a 437

side of our studies, maybe we had once or twice per week we had a class in Danish language or a class in 438

Danish culture or Danish society or something. Just to help us understand what is going on too. Maybe 439

explain us about the tax system, what is happening when you go to Skat or something. What is going on in 440

the kommune, or about some celebrations or something or I don’t know yet, the labor market. All of this 441

that we are finding out now, is gonna be so much more helpful if we knew it from before, so we can really 442

start from day one, finishing our education, finding work in the most, like, in a way that is most possible to 443

actually get this job. Not in trying so many wrong methods, that, I don’t know, I am about to finish these 444

two years, but I get this help of finding work and etc. and I still don’t have work. I have lost so much time in 445

trying the wrong ways, which are actually ways that many people told me, “It’s impossible to work here, 446

this way.” I feel like I maybe lost a lot of time doing the wrong stuff which I shouldn’t have been and now I 447

am actually considering moving out of the country. 448

Ventsi: Yeah, for me also it has been 1½ years, but not as much as her, but still I feel the same desperation, 449

I tried so many different manners, like solicited, unsolicited, calling, not calling, doing whatever I can, using 450

connections, everything. It is not working man. 451

Anja: Okay, which obligations do you have as an unemployed in Denmark? (Kami: What do you mean?) Do 452

you have any obligations as an unem…? 453

Ventsi: Obligations? 454

Anja: Yeah. 455

Eliza: Yes many. 456

Ventsi: Yes, yes, many. 457

Anja: Yeah, which obligations do you have? Diana, do you know what I mean? 458

Diana: I am not sure I understand your (utydelig) 459

(Ventsi: obligations like, what are you required to do.) 460

(Eliza: what do you have to do to get this money?) 461

16

Anja: E.g. do you have to go to the commune every second week? Do you have to find paperwork, do 462

you…? 463

Diana: The requirements from ASE4 you mean, or…? 464

Anja: Any obligations (Ventsi: any, any) you feel you have. Do you feel like you have to (utydelig). 465

Diana: Yeah, of course we have. Of course we have, but to be honest, I prefer doing them myself most of 466

the time. I am always the one who is calling for a meeting or for such things, you know, because I can do it 467

like on their web site. My A-kasse is ASE and I usually have Kasper Hatting that is my supervisor, and the job 468

center in Hedensted. I have Steen Duss and I am always like calling them like having this interviews and 469

talking and so on, and for job center in the very beginning, I told to Steen like: I cannot, you know, come 470

here every, then, week or so, because the train ticket is expensive, and I don’t see the, you know, point in 471

it, so if we could do it over the phone, or something like that. And then I’ve had these training I could say, I 472

am not 100 % sure of what they meant by that, but I’ve had, I’ve met Annette Mønster from Jobcenter TUC 473

job and she actually offered herself to come from Hedensted in Horsens, because it is easier for me, I am 474

living in Glud and I am coming every day by car because I am studying at Sprogcenter Midt. 475

Anja: You live where? 476

Diana: In Glud. 477

Anja: Glud? 478

Diana: Near Juelsminde and Ålstrup. 479

Anja: Yeah,okay. 480

Diana: Yeah somewhere near in the forest, but I love it, it’s nature. And she actually even did this for me 481

and then she tried her best to help me with this CV and everything else and then. She was like, ´”I am very 482

surprised. You are one of the few I’ve had that is very enthusiastic” and I said like; yes, I think probably 483

because I am still in the very beginning, it was. This happened in November, Oktober? No, everything 484

started in Oktober, but in November I had her and she was like “You are very enthusiastic and I can see 485

you, you can do it” but still she got me an internship, I mean, she got all my requirements and everything, 486

then she find a suitable one at a turistkontor in Juelsminde, because I told her that like of my specialties 487

back home is tourist, and am very into it, and I was like, I would like to work with advertising strategies and 488

so on, and she was; okay let’s find this, this, this and that and I’ve actually got to choose between three of 489

them, and she was also very surprised about it (griner) like how did you get… 490

Roxi: I’m surprised because, on Friday she tells me “Oh on Monday starts internship”. Yeah, but for me it's 491

different and with A-kasse, well, we have this minimum number of applications we have to send and we 492

have to update the job-load all the time and the, at least every three months you have to meet with the 493

consultant and, you know, you can select the different types of meetings, and I even so there is a meeting 494

like go and she is like trying to, not cheer you up, but you know like" How is it going, you should do this, 495

maybe you should try that" 496

4 A-kasse

17

Kami: Feed up meeting or something. 497

Roxi: Øh, yeah. 498

Ventsi: It's kind a supportive, cause I go to this every month you know. 499

(utydelig) 500

(?: Every month?!) 501

Ventsi: Yeah. 502

Roxi: And then there are also workshops, I think I've seen you at a LinkedIn workshop. 503

Kami: Ha, it's possible. 504

Roxi: Yeah, on a Monday some weeks ago. Yeah, and then there's... also I was in Odense and there was this 505

work shop about, it was power in mundtlig kommunikation it was about how to talk and how to, but I think, 506

me personally, I really need that. 507

Anja: Do you have the same obligations as your fellow Danish class mates? 508

Ventsi: To be honest, I have no idea what's up with my fellow Danish class mates (folk griner) 509

Kami: Yeah it's true. 510

Viktor: They found jobs. 511

Ventsi: Yeah, I think most of them, they have jobs so... Say no... 512

Anja: Okay, øm... yeah! 513

Eliza: I also... yes, there are these obligations, and you go and it is so discouraging when they ask you 514

something you have already done. For instance, we have to complete some; write where you send 515

applications and everything and was put online to your A-kasse, and then you go to meet with Ramstad for 516

me, e.g. and you go and "Tell me that, okay your Danish is not good enough..." this is the same thing that 517

they repeat. 518

Anja: Yeah. Just continue speaking. (Jeg siger farvel til Raluca). 519

Kami: I wanted to say something prior... (utydelig) 520

Eliza: and... it's.... and then when I went to... I had a problem at some interviews, especially at Dong... the 521

first interview went well, they called me to the second interview, I went, and then they changed the HR and 522

the HR asked me "Are you receiving some A-kasse money now?" - "Yes, I am on dagpenge, yes I am" and 523

then suddenly everything changed and she was very (utydelig). Yes, so I decided, okay I want... I felt bad. It 524

was a second interview for a job. They said "Okay we give you an internship of one month and then it 525

became two months, but there the HR the same "Ahh, you just want to use Denmark's money and you 526

don't want to work, you are..." This is what he told me, but the guy who wanted to hire me gave me the 527

possibility to be there. it was so... I was pushed from every one. It was... there were not too many 528

18

internationals, full-time internationals. They worked very well with the Swedish guys, with the German 529

guys, but those from Eastern Europe, they were, we were only two and they were... pushing us. So I gave 530

up. So this was it. I didn't finish, yeah sorry. And because of this, I gave up A-kasse for almost three months 531

in a row, because it made me feel so bad. Okay, if I cannot go to an interview and be treated; okay, that's 532

normal to receive that. Then I just gave up. Then later on, I have retaken it and I tried to work as an 533

unskilled employee again, but then the A-kasse gave me problems because... sometimes the paper was not 534

okay from the employer and anyway I wasn't... I was supposed to get them so many papers for several 535

hours of work, what I could find that became, it has become a huge (Kami: burden) burden, yes. So I have 536

chosen to apply for university, but only to get out of this system which was pushing me down. I am not 537

interested in finishing it. I was thinking, it would give me this boost and maybe I can get into a company like 538

Siemens with an internship or whatever what, and now I am waiting the contract from Siemens. But still, 539

it's... after four degrees, I still don't understand; why do I have to go back to studying, just, you know. 540

Anja: Yeah, I understand. 541

Kami: Yeah, this feeling of having a higher education, then feeling like; I can do nothing, but about 542

obligations I just remembered. We also have to meet with Job center, because as an employed you're also 543

registered in Job center, and there are some meetings again maybe once every three months or something, 544

but I guess if you are in an active (utydelig) period, maybe you meet more often with the consultant or 545

something. And also, this thing, because we are members like... we come from a countries members of the 546

European unions, we have a lot of the rights of like what Danes have, lets' say, but we have only (utydelig) I 547

have only temporarily residence permit here, which makes my rights, like not full or something. I know if I 548

have permanent residence permit I will have more rights, and if I have, like, full citizenship there will be 549

even more, like, possibilities and right etc. I don't know if that gives us more obligations that we are not 550

(utydelig) I don't know about that, but maybe there is a difference if what we can get, let's say. I am not, for 551

sure there are some differences in this... 552

Anja: Yeah, Roxi did you have something to add or? 553

Roxi: Uhm, no not really. I was just thinking on commenting on what you said, because... you know this 554

thing... I mean, there is a bad image for eastern Europeans like "Yeah, you just come here for the money 555

and you get free money and... (utydelig)" and I know we also have all sorts of Romanians we've seen so 556

many times in the news "Romanians do this and this". You know, I am also aware that we have a bad 557

image, bet they should be aware that people are different and... 558

Diana: Exactly, we have a saying in our country, like, not all of the fingers are the same, so stop 559

stereotyping us, because it's not that... you say like "Germans are not good at jokes" and so on and so on, 560

but there are good Germans like a jokes (griner). There are few, I mean it, I meant... 561

Roxi: Some people call me "You are too blond and white to be Romanian" I'm like; really, stop it!? 562

Anja: Okay I think we have to go to the next question: Does the Danish system make it harder for you to 563

find a job? 564

Kami: No, it's actually even easier with all these meetings and consults that we have with this person, 565

consulting person meetings, which they help us actually write our CV's and applications in Danish, and even 566

19

if it is in English they are at least correcting it or something so... it is more suited for the work market here. 567

So I think in this case they are helping because, I went for three months back at home to try to find work 568

and I was... again I had to register at the labor union or how is it called? Yeah. There. And there were no 569

such meetings or okay I'm Bulgarian, I didn't have to go to study the language or what, but there were no 570

meetings. Like once a month I had to go to some signature and they asked me "So what did you do this 571

months" or something and said like "Yeah, I was looking, I went to some companies bla bla bla". They were 572

not even interesting what... why did... I am still unemployed or something. So I think that here they are 573

actually giving them more support. Not the best one, but I think that it's a lot more than working it in 574

Bulgaria e.g. 575

Roxi: I think that they are really trying here, even though... it is not always the best results. They are trying 576

right? (folk er enige). 577

Eliza: You know what, they should give you, actually after two and something years, I know what they don't 578

do and they should. They are teaching you... they show you how to write a CV right? Maybe you get help in 579

the first months. That's good. They tell you "Go and network" they don't tell you... and then you try, and I 580

was trying! Okay, where could I meet the Danes? It was a big problem. Then I started going to the 581

meetings, events organized by IDA5, because I'm in IDA, but that didn't give me long term relationship. It 582

just give me; okay I met them once or twice... 583

Kami: But this is something, do you have even such meetings back at home? We don’t have anything like 584

this back at home. This is what I’m saying, that even these small meetings for whatever, or job fairs or God 585

knows, whatever or what they are offering. (Roxi: … Denmark it is cheaper or for free. .. That’s a big thing) 586

This is really good also, so actually, here they are helping you more to find work. 587

Diana: I really have to agree on that one, because actually I was really fond of Annette Mønster, the one 588

from TUCJOB6 that helped me, a lot. I really think highly of her, and really she did, I think from the whole 589

people, the whole bunch of people that tried to help me, and I am not 100% they actually really tried to, I 590

think Annette was the best, and she really did help. 591

Kami: Well this is their job, this is what they are supposed to do, so… I don’t know. They are not getting 592

your case as personal or something but… 593

Diana: No, but, I am saying, I am subjective because there were many others that told me of TUCJOB or 594

ANSDAL or whatever I’ve been there, but they didn’t do.. shit, you know, for me.. So I was like, Okay. I was 595

actually a bit scared in the very beginning, and then I was like, whatever, I am just gonna try. 596

Elisa: It depends of how lucky you are and whom do you get. 597

Diana: That’s also Annette, she told me like, “I think you the first to be so enthusiastic about it and very into 598

it.” So probably she also got a bunch of people that were, like, grim about it and everything else. So if you 599

are putting it this way, of course, you are not also motivating, you know, the person that promised to 600

actually really help you. 601

5 Interesseorganisation for alle ingeniører i Danmark

6 TUCJOB (Tørring UddannelsescCenter ) har specialiseret sig i at tilbyde arbejdsmarkedsrettede forløb til jobcentre.

20

Kami: Hey, but generally the system is good. I mean, the system offers a lot. 602

Diana: I think so too. 603

Anja: Did you hear the question? (rettet til Ventsi) 604

Ventsi: Yes, if the system is helping us. 605

Anja: Nah (Ventsi: Can you repeat?). Does the system make it harder for you to find a job? 606

Ventsi: No, no, it makes it easier, actually. Thanks to such a job fair, as you are talking about, I get the first 607

interview… I got in Denmark, thanks to such a job fair, at Siemens, so, you can imagine. I was pretty happy. I 608

didn’t get the job but I was happy with myself (griner). 609

Anja: What does the government or commune do to help you find a job? Something that you might not 610

have mentioned. 611

Kami: All of these things... But then again, this is when they are helping you, like, if you apply for this like 612

unemployed benefits and you are a member of an A-kasse and etc. etc. This is when you actually get this 613

help. But as I said when I firstly came here I was just trying to find a part time job to support my studies. We 614

did not get scholarship for EU people before, it was too many years ago. So, yeah, and then as I said we 615

didn't get any help, neither from job center or the carrier service center in VIA or whoever you ask, nobody 616

actually helped you in any way. I don't know. Maybe I had some friends and they gave me the addresses of 617

few vikar agencies and that was… I did not even know what was a vikar agency and what am I supposed to 618

do there, you know, and what work they offer, anything, and yes so maybe at some point they do give you 619

help, but at the certain point that you need help they don't, so. Then they don't even give information or 620

something. May be others have experienced this also at some point. 621

Eliza: And only, also acquaintances, they don't want to share the information about vikars as something… 622

and like, they are trying to keep it to their small group of friends maybe, so... 623

Ventsi: Yes, but you should agree, it is very competitive especially these vikar agencies. Everybody who 624

comes here first thinks, first steps go there ask for a job. (Eliza: Yeah) It is very competitive, very difficult to 625

get in line. (Roxi: Yeah, it took me a year to get a job...) It took me two and a half or something. 626

Kami: Two and a half years also it took me to find a part time job. (Ventsi: Yeah) And it was a cleaning job 627

and I found it through a friend. Let’s say, it was not even, I found it myself or something. 628

Diana: Usually I think you get in if you know somebody, that knows somebody, that knows somebody. 629

Kami: To be again networking helps even when it is a part time job. I can really say, that maybe we have 630

like two periods of experience of unemployment, when we first came to Denmark for studying and trying to 631

find some part time job, and then after we... we actually graduated and trying to find a full time job related 632

to our studies. 633

Anja: Do you have an idea if Danish people, they are in the same situation (Ventsi, Kami: No) as you, as 634

being unemployed, if they are treated the same way? 635

21

Kami: For example, I know that many people with my profession, constructing architects, they... there are 636

many unemployed because there are too many specialist in this area. This is like the explanation of the 637

government or I don't know who to say, are giving this explanation… people who makes the statistics or 638

something. They are saying that there are too many specialists in this area and that's a not as many working 639

places, and therefore there is big unemployment for constructing architects. And therefore many people 640

move to Norway to work there. And honestly when I firstly became unemployed my consultant told me 641

that I should consider moving out or like looking for a job in Norway or Germany or some other country 642

around, because I will most probably not find work here. This was not very motivational with my first 643

meeting, you know, after graduating or something. This is what I know about my profession, at least. So, I 644

guess not also many Danes are employed, of my profession. (Roxi: at least she was honest) 645

Anja: What do you think Viktor? 646

Viktor: (utydelig) all of my Danish classmates have jobs. But then a lot of them have networks, like their 647

father (Ventsi: parents) who has companies or… 648

Anja: Do you know any Danish that are unemployed and their feelings? 649

Alle: No. 650

Viktor: I don't know that many Danish people. 651

Anja: Do you know any Danish unemployed? 652

Eliza: Okay. I know many, because through my former job, the company went bankrupt, and many have 653

lost their jobs and they couldn't find a new job. And, I also met some through IDA, my fagforening, a union, 654

and the main thing is that some of them lose their confidence; and then the Danish society labels them as 655

problems with mental problems. And when they go to an interview they cannot show this... "Wow, I can do 656

it" and then it just gets worse. You know, it's like a cascading thing. Like, you get an interview, even they get 657

an interview through some friends or something, maybe they cannot show this. And it happens again and 658

again. And I also know one. He is for four years without a job... So… (Anja: a Danish guy?) Yes, exactly. So, 659

this is what happens that in Denmark it's a shame not to work in a way. And, it's a shame to be 660

psychologically not so.. not strong, like psychically. You have to show always "Ah, I am the thing". 661

Kami: Do young Danes know that? Because most of them just get these unemployment benefits and they 662

are very happy with it. (Ventsi: Yeah.) They don't even look for a job. We have discussed this so many times 663

in our Danish classes, because... Yeah, as I say, like people who make statistics, like researchers, or I don't 664

know, like they actually figure out there is so many young people here quite happy not working and just 665

receiving unemployment benefits. (Eliza: I have been with Danes…) Maybe the culture is generally different, 666

but I thinks us as Eastern Europeans feel more unhappy not working because I feel quite bad that I am 24 667

and I didn't have work for two years. Like, what does this say about me (Ventsi: Yeah). Like in my prime 668

years, I am healthy, I am energetic, I have all my brains in my head, you know, and then I can't find work, 669

then what am I supposed to tell when I am 50.. "No, I was sleeping for two years". I think for us is actually 670

worse and this physiological thing about not being able to find work and what is wrong, you know. What 671

am I not giving, what am I less than the others, you know, or something. (Roxi: Yeah, I find myself the 672

same…) That is like, a bit. Many people move out of Denmark because of this, or I don’t know, as you say 673

22

they go after education or something, just to get out of this situation. I'm pretty sure that... I have also 674

friends who have tried here to find work; it didn’t happen, went back home, found some really nice work in 675

a nice company. They feel good, they feel like people again. They don't feel like some gypsy not knowing to 676

read or write or something. 677

Eliza: Yeah, but as I tell you actually, Danes have the same problem, because the society is pressing on 678

them, but there are some, who are very okay with this social help. These are the people you mean maybe? 679

They say “Oh, I am feeling so depressed” most of them, this is the story “I cannot do anything”. If you go in, 680

the whole house is a mess, and still, like, they are waiting for somebody to give them value to… How do you 681

say this? "You are a valuable person, you can do it". Because… (Kami: selfhelp) selfhelp, maybe you can also 682

say it. I am calling my former colleagues at least once in two months. Now one of them finally has found a 683

job, but they were so down with the moral. And, actually two of them, office workers, working for over 20 684

years, with computers, with mechanical design and such; and they accepted to work as unskilled workers 685

just because of this pressure of the society. It's not seen well, if, so it's... Either you accept "I have 686

problems", psychologically or something, there it's okay and you go with it. Either you accept everything, 687

just to show you are okay. This, it's a huge pressure on them. 688

Anja: Diana, do you had something? Do you know any unemployed Danish? 689

Diana: Yeah, I actually know one which was my class mate in AP degree. She didn't find anything, but she is 690

not actually really trying. She is very more focused on traveling and learning other languages. So I got a bit 691

like, okay so you... because back then I did not know about A-kasse. I just found out a few months before 692

graduating and I had no idea what she meant, because she stopped after AP-degree. She didn't go further 693

on with the BA. She said like "Whatever, I have already had something else, and I wanna sing, I wanna..." 694

Okay, go for it! It must be like... what else. 695

Roxi: I also have to say, just about two of my former class mates. One she still doesn't have a job, but this is 696

because she had like physical health problems like back problems, so she was on a sick (utydelig), and the 697

other guy he was trying to make his own company, but he was applying for a grand and that took lot time, 698

and now he said that he is applying for a job and I think he had an interview, but he said that is a step 699

down. It seems as a step down, if you are going from wanting to make a company to applying for a job. I 700

was like; wow! But he is the kind of guy... I don't believe he can stay unemployed for long. He's like really 701

good. 702

Anja: Do you feel like you are treated differently than these Danish or the same? Those Danish people you 703

just talked about. 704

Kami: I think that... these Danes who want to have work, they are finding work (folk er enige). Maybe not in 705

their professional field, maybe not the best one, what they want to, but they are able to find work as many 706

people are saying; for us it is even hard to find some unskilled work, or something that has nothing to do 707

with our professional area, so maybe. 708

Anja: Is it important what your cultural background is, in connection to getting a job? 709

Nick: Yes, it's important when communicating, cause what I've noticed e.g. in Bulgaria there is a very big 710

marginal of power distance. You know the distance between you and your boss is very big. You cannot just 711

23

talk, like, to him on an everyday basis, unlike here where you and your boss can communicate. You can call 712

your boss by first name and call your teachers in the university by first name. So if you are not aware of 713

that, that might cause some problems and make it even harder for you to find a job, or to get yourself up 714

through the latter or whatever. 715

Ventsi: Yeah, I can also add; if you can see we are all speaking with our hands (folk griner). Wow, wow, 716

wow!! Do this, do that, very energetic, very... like if I'm e.g. in my opinion, if I really have to do something. 717

To assemble this pen now. I will be really focused on it and (han laver lyde) just do everything. Like very 718

quickly and very efficiently and e.g. I am guessing some Danish (utydelig) they are taking their time so slow. 719

So like "What shall we do now, maybe we should search in Google now" (Ventsi griner) you know? 720

Something like this. So... (Kami: searching Google) Yeah... exactly... (folk griner). So (utydelig) yeah... There 721

is a big difference between eastern European worker and Danish worker. We do our job differently and 722

maybe, not sure, we're getting the same results, I believe (Kami: yeah). I haven't worked, so I cannot say. 723

Kami: You do have to understand the culture, in order to work in this culture, to like, live in this culture. To 724

be a part of this culture. Otherwise, you are just a foreigner or it's a foreign culture to yours, something. I 725

guess it is different in every country and in every region in every... I mean it's different than here in Horsens 726

and what the situation in Copenhagen e.g. so, I guess yeah, you need to be aware of what is going on 727

around you. 728

Diana: And you have this 'Stille og rolig' thing that always go about it e.g.... 729

Anja: The,.. I'm sorry, what? 730

Diana: 'Stille og rolig' 731

Anja: 'Stille og rolig'?! Yeah! (folk griner) 732

Diana: You are usually saying this. I was quite surprised (utydelig). E.g. before when I was still... going to 733

McDonald's to take those fries... you know I had to wait like 25 minutes or so. In Romania I was working in 734

McDonald's... a basic order would be assembled in 57 seconds and I was like; Okay, I was waiting and 735

waiting and waiting and I was like; it was only a portion of fries. Yeah, but there are still people in the... and 736

you know they were moving like... (Diana viser hvordan man er stille og rolig) (Ventsi: very slow) No, no, no, 737

no... the other one (Ventsi griner). Yes, thank you (Diana snakker med langsom tone) (Kami griner). Really!? 738

I actually (utydelig) I appreciate the fact that they, you know, they don't stress out and because I was 739

actually very stressed out while, while I was working there, and it was a full-time job and there was always 740

like (utydelig) you know this, and I... I have had my head full of it, even when I had back-up, when I was in 741

the (utydelig), but still... (utydelig). 742

Roxi: (Utydelig) ...exaggerated slightly (Diana ruller med øjnene: not really). I don't have the same 743

experience... We have to keep in mind that... come on, we are coming from like southern Europe where... 744

from, you know... where we have more Latin blood... more (Folk griner) (utydelig) You know, like... more 745

(utydelig) something. 746

Diana: Yeah, we are (Kami: yeah, it's like...) probably more temperamental... (Folk er enige). 747

Ventsi: We are emotional (folk taler). 748

24

Roxi: Yeah, I know what you mean (Ventsi griner). 749

Anja: And... Yes... what was your point? 750

Roxi: I'm not sure... to your question that... I am trying to put myself in, you know, in employers' shoes. You 751

know, they have to choose like, between Danish and foreigners. Maybe, for also a bit of a issue of trust, 752

maybe from foreigners who don't know what to expect and... you know, like you have to prove more of 753

themselves that you fit in, and... That's all... 754

Anja: Okay, I have a really good one now: Do you feel wanted in Denmark? (Alle ryster på hovedet). 755

Ventsi: Nope. 756

Eliza: No. 757

Kami: I think this is the worse feeling actually, because you're... not your like so much... your motivation 758

really gets... it's dead at some point. You're not motivated and you are just; pack up all your stuff and go 759

out of here, and there are so many people who do that, and it is just... I don't know if they even finish with 760

their education. Maybe they just give up at some point, "Okay I am just not wanted here..." 761

Anja: Even during their education? 762

Kami: Yes, they just give up. They can't take it anymore. 763

Anja: Even at school you don't feel wanted. Do you all agree with that? 764

Eliza: Yes. 765

Diana: I think it depends... taking it subjectively like... my own experiences... I've had certain periods of 766

time during high school... high school... university here, when I actually got a bit fed up of hearing Danish 767

during classes because, they were speaking Danish... quite a lot of times, and I was like; okay, it's about the 768

lectures, you know, we really feel like this, and I couldn't actually stand up and say this, like "I don't think 769

it's right, but..." I didn't in the first semester, I did it in the second semester actually, and since then, you 770

know... they stop for a few months and that was it, but still... and then I went up again, because they told 771

me "No worries, you will find work and so on afterwards" I was like (utydelig) can't believe that my initial 772

thought was to come back in Romania and finish my other university I've had there, but I got so excited 773

about this university, like; okay I will take full time and I will find a great job and oh my God, you know? And 774

oh my God it was afterwards (utydelig, folk griner). 775

Ventsi: ... say this, oh my God... what now? 776

Kami: (trist) Yeah, oh my God! 777

Anja: Yeah, and Viktor do you feel wanted in Denmark? 778

Viktor: No I had Danish people tell it to my face that I am not wanted (folk griner og siger ja). 779

Nick: Yeah. I have also noticed it. Sometimes out in the streets some random people just... we get to talking 780

and they ask "So where are you from?" - "I am from Bulgaria" - "And what you are doing here?" - "I am 781

25

about to take social ben... unemployment benefits" and he says "Oh, okay... so my taxes are paying for your 782

unemployment benefits, how nice." 783

Ventsi: Actually, no it happens sometime this, this (utydelig) who is paying (Ventsi griner). 784

(Folk snakker) 785

Kami: And nobody takes under consideration that we actually, during our studies, are supporting ourselves 786

with Bulgarian money which we have brought here to Denmark so... we have... 787

Roxi: And that's something. 788

Kami: Yeah, so we have actually boosted the economy here I bet, but nobody thinks about that... 789

Ventsi: ...and we are still not wanted (utydelig). 790

Kami: Okay, you come here just for our unemployment benefits, you know, so... I don't know, they put us 791

in a group with all of these Arabic people who don't really try to integrate them... just staying here, having 792

kids and... I don't know... receiving kontanthjælp or something... and yeah. 793

Eliza: Please, we do not have to generalize because I also meet... know a lot of them and... 794

Kami: I'm sorry I... because they just put me in one booth like this; the same. I'm sorry. 795

Eliza: Yes the have the same probs... No, but... (Roxi: That's stereotyping) the same problem as that we do. 796

Even worse, cause they look at their face; okay, you are a terrorist; you are… you are... 797

Kami: Bad. 798

Ventsi: You have brown eyes, go away (folk griner). 799

Eliza: So for them it's even worse (utydelig, folk snakker). For Arabs it's worse and... also for (Kami: the 800

fugitives) the African... 801

Ventsi: Africans, afghani, everybody who is not from Scandinavia have a problem here, I'm telling you. 802

Eliza: Africans are... they look at them; okay they are good for cleaning and stuff, but they are not really... 803

this is how I see... for Arabs are associated with violence and Africans are associated with laziness or very 804

like dogs, let's say. Or slaves, or... something like that. 805

Kami: Yeah, and then some people put also eastern Europeans in this whole group, you know? (Eliza: We 806

are, we are the ones who steal) Stereotypes... I don't know... (Ventsi: Yeah and we are the ones who steal) 807

(utydelig) I mean, foreigners are not bad people. We all get education. We all are like, I don't know, nice 808

people, I don't know... educated parents who gave us like some good culture or something, so... 809

Eliza: What they don't say... why don't they turn to Danish... to our Danish colleagues, that they like 810

foreigners coming to study here, because the EU gives them a lot of money, they receive 45.000, around 811

45.000 pr. semester for each of us (folk nikker), but this is something they don't say that... so it' not even... 812

not just your money what you bring from Bulgaria it's also these money from the EU. 813

26

Kami: You're investing so much in this education here, so it feels quite... kind of bad not find job after, 814

because you have invested in nothing... You have invested time, money and all these tries and everything 815

and the whole difficulties in living and studying in another country and then... and then you get anything 816

out of it, and then you have to chase another education or something, so... What was I doing? (Diana: your 817

motivational...) Yes, yes. 818

Anja: Roxi you had (utydelig). 819

Roxi: Yeah, actually I want to make a (utydelig) point about this, if I feel wanted... (utydelig) 820

Anja: Sorry? 821

Roxi: Yeah, you said if we feel... 822

Anja: If you feel wanted? Yeah. 823

Roxi: Well my feeling is kind of neutral. It's like in the (utydelig)... but I keep hearing in the news that the 824

fertility is going down and they need a lot of people and I don't know what I even... 825

Anja: What is going down, you say? 826

Diana: Fertility... Rate of birth.... 827

Roxi: Rate of birth... (Anja: Ah, yeah yeah) and that they will need work force... and I am trying to see, 828

trying to think like... why don't they see this? 829

Ventsi: Also I read... 830

Roxi: Yeah, just one more thing. Yeah… this thing with stereotyping. I think… yeah, we all know it's wrong, 831

but it's all for a reason, and I think all of us we make stereotypes, but I think when we... when it gets 832

personal it's about how educated each of us are, like you know. 833

Eliza: But also, but now we were only talking about the negative stuff, but I must say, I have very good 834

Danish friends who would be very sad if I leave, and they want me to stay, and I remember when I left, I 835

stayed two months in a company as an intern and I left because I was treated badly and my boss was 836

crying. So he said; he finally had someone who (utydelig) and his family were also... had a connection, 837

because we could talk and we had the same feelings and, and he said... and... It’s not okay to be in that 838

company, because... is it of the Jantelov as he said "You are not allowed to be... you are not better than us" 839

This is what they say. So, also... the very gifted Danes have problems living in Denmark. 840

Kami: Yeah, but there is like (utydelig) the population has no problems with foreigners, but then the other 841

half has big problems with foreigners, there... or something... maybe more nationalist or something, but 842

then the other half they're either getting happy that you can speak some Danish (folk siger ja) I don't 843

know... Small things that we know about the country now or something. 844

Roxi: I met so many Danes, when we were trying to speak in Danish and they are like "Oh, but your Danish 845

is so good!" and they are so excited and ahh, so... (folk vil have ordet). 846

27

Eliza: But they never tell you except that when you go for... looking to... for a job, that Ramstad, whatever... 847

only there tell your Danish sucks, but the rest want to encourage you and they don't really.... 848

Kami: No, no, no... There are also people who you try with your best Danish to say something, they are like 849

"What, what? Just speak in English, I can't understand you" and is this motivational? No. 850

Roxi: But see... as my consultant, she told me "Well, you should... So you know Danish, so you have... I 851

mean... nothing... well it could be perfect... but they told me like "Ah okay, you still have this advantage, 852

you kinda lived here... so you should apply in Danish. So yes, I took it like from positive side. So they didn't 853

give me like "Oh you are still not good enough". 854

Diana: So I would say it depends... 855

Kami og Eliza: Yeah, it depends. 856

Kami: It's 50/50 really. 857

Anja: I think we should take a break... 10-15 minutes so you can get some more coffee and I hope you are 858

still up for some more questions? (Pause) And I am behind schedule, I can also say that. 859

Kami: They say that it is in our blood to complain, like... if you ask an eastern European how did your 860

holiday went, the first 20 things what I'm gonna say, are the bad things. Maybe (utydelig) will say yeah, it 861

was also sunny and it had a nice beach or something, but then I am gonna complain about everything else 862

first. 863

(Pause). 864

Eliza: Yeah, but you are right. If you start complaining to a Danish, he will label you as a problem. 865

Kami: Yeah, you don't do that. You put a big smile. Everything is great. 866

(Pause) 867

Eliza: Actually, I was also offered some jobs and during... also these last two years and also when I 868

(utydelig) 2008-2009 I was offered a job if I was to sleep with him. (Pause) I was offered five jobs until now. 869

(Pause) 870

Roxi: Here is so much, like, negative experiences like bad luck. 871

(Pause) 872

Eliza: And they were very direct actually. (Pause) I was in shock you know. I am invited to a business 873

meeting... we're discussing about the job and then I get this offer... 874

(Pause) 875

Kami: Just, how the hell is it possible to have a bachelor, who does not have a proper Master afterwards? 876

How is... How does this educational system works? (Pause) When you apply in VIA to start a bachelor, they 877

are assuring you... (utydelig). (Pause) Just like generally when I was started to search for possibilities for 878

28

Masters, for educations. I realized that I have almost none. I do have one actually... honestly, which I can 879

straight go to; that's the Building Management Master in Aalborg University. That's the only one. (Pause) 880

My diploma is just not good enough. This is again something weird or something, which we don't have in 881

Bulgaria, what... after the bachelor we have a proper Master. (Pause) My point is, that this is one of the 882

reasons that people also move out of here, because they would like to finish their education, to have a 883

Masters and they can't find a proper Masters or they're just answered that their bachelor is not good 884

enough for starting a Master, and then they just find a Master education in another country. As I said I have 885

been accepted in Sweden and most probably I will go there. 886

(Pause) 887

Eliza: And also, we don't know about the different kinds of education in Denmark... 888

(Pause) 889

Kami: Actually, after I finished the fifth module in Danish they organized, like with this job consultant lady 890

there is, career and educational consultant lady, and she organized some extra courses in... There were 891

three days of courses, each day was (utydelig) about career, about education or about something else bla 892

bla bla. And it was quite helpful... kinda it was our possibility after we have finished our Danish course, you 893

know, what can we do, you know, with our new language and all and something. It was very helpful. This 894

we did not get in VIA after we graduated or something. 895

(Pause slut) 896

Anja: We were talking about culture a little bit and there is a reason why you are only Bulgarians and 897

Romanians, and that's because I wanna know what you feel about… if there is a difference between being, 898

like, a Chinese, Swedish or Spanish or Bulgarian, Romanian job applicant here in Denmark. Is there a 899

difference? 900

Kami: I guess you maybe, you just, you're part of a different target group or something like this. As we 901

come from Eastern Europe, we are Eastern Europeans and... Maybe, yeah, maybe if there is a company, for 902

example, which would like to have more contacts with their Chinese market, they would be looking for 903

Chinese people, so... of course, it will be benefit to be a Chinese or something. Let's say that I have not seen 904

a job offer saying "If you know Bulgarian (folk griner), please apply for this job", or something. That I have 905

never experienced. But I have seen many for other nationalities and other languages, like, sometimes it's 906

for translating or something. Maybe with some sentence, or, yeah. But, yeah, I remember also when we 907

were trying to find a practical placement, probably, or studying, there were some people from the exotic 908

countries like Brazil let's say, they found really easily practical placement too, just because they come from 909

a country where maybe they are part of a target group or something. And then, yeah, for us it might have 910

been a bit more difficult. Let’s say. 911

Anja: So there is not difference between being German, French or Bulgarian? 912

Eliza: It's a difference, there is. 913

Ventsi: It's a social political difference, in fact because Denmark is not doing so much business with Eastern 914

Europe, for example Bulgaria. I know about Bulgarian, but about Romania I don't know. But, there is not a 915

29

lot business going around in Denmark and people who need Bulgarians speaking professional. (Eliza: They 916

go towards Poland… Polish companies) With (utydelig), yeah, they work a lot with Poland, but not with our 917

countries. 918

Eliza: And for engineers. If you are French, they know that they are the best (Ventsi fnyser og griner). 919

Anja: French? (Ventsi bryder ud i grin) 920

Eliza: Yeah most... (Roxi: At what?) No no, yes actually… (Ventsi: No) 921

Roxi: Best at what? 922

Ventsi: Best at what? 923

Eliza: Design engineers and also in IT. They, everywhere, they know they are really good. 924

Roxi: But that's a bit generalizing… 925

Ventsi: Design engineering is very subjective and if you are an engineer you know. 926

Eliza: Ahm, no. Yes, I am (utydelig). 927

Ventsi: Cause, I am also a design engineer and I know it's very subjective. It does not matter where you 928

come from to make design engineering, you know. 929

Eliza: Yeah, but most of them are really good. I also met some and they were like (Ventsi: Amazing?) extra.. 930

yeah, amazing. Actually, one of them has won the first price now in Silicon Valley. 931

Ventsi: Very well. 932

Eliza: At a… Yeah, an important competition (Ventsi: Cool). So, yes... 933

Anja: Roxi, you wanted to say something? 934

Roxi: I just wanted to give an example. I made my bachelor project with a small company but very very 935

technical and very… like... a... It was lightening protection for wind turbines, so it was very… yeah. So, they 936

were like 12 employees maybe or 10 and all Danes. But there was one Indian guy but he was like really 937

good and what was… so yeah… I think what they were looking there was just for expertise in... anyone. 938

Anja: Yeah. You... I heard you were sniffing Victor, when I asked the question. You have something to add? 939

Viktor: For what, no. (Anja griner) 940

Ventsi: Come on. 941

Anja: You don't think there is a difference, between being… 942

Viktor: Ahm, no, just the eastern European... general opinion of the eastern European is a bit lower than 943

the western European, so… 944

30

Ventsi: There is this... For example, if there is a French candidate and a Bulgarian candidate, most likely 945

they will chose the French one, because the Bulgarian one is perceived (Kami: I don't want to believe this...) 946

like somebody lower. 947

Kami: I don't want to believe it, but I think that might be (Ventsi: Yeah). And I am also thinking sometimes if 948

I had, you know... I am the same person but if I was not Bulgarian, if I was English, for example, I think I 949

would have found work until now (Ventsi: Mh). Just because... (Ventsi:Yeah)...nothing else to be changes, 950

none of my qualifications, none of my skills, nothing, you know, just the nationality. (Ventsi: Just your 951

nationality.) Yeah. 952

Eliza: It's like they are pure blood, you know (folk griner). It's... ah... yeah, the west of… (folk griner) of us 953

(folk griner). We are like… (Kami: I don't know...) low quality (Ventsi: Those Slavic people... Always trying to 954

be sneaky). 955

Kami: There is so many people who think of us as those… this ‘eastern bloc’, you know, something, as... I 956

don't know. Yeah. 957

Viktor: Fair is fair, we do have some people that come here and they enforce this opinion, but (Kami: Yes) 958

at least the ones that come to study don't. 959

Anja: Did you... You know... Research say that it benefits a company if there are foreigners in a company 960

and it actually boosts the revenue. So, it is better to have foreigners in a company. 961

Ventsi: Because of diversity. 962

Anja: Yeah. The next question you've already answered, but I'm gonna ask it anyways. Have you ever felt 963

that you did’nt get a job interview or a job because you are a foreigner? (Alle siger ja) (Ventsi: Yes, many 964

times). Anybody is saying no? No...? Okay. This is about you cultural heritage. Can you be a Romanian or 965

Bulgarian in Denmark as a job applicant or do you need to set your native culture aside? Do you feel like 966

you can be Bulgarian or Romanian? Or do you need to change? 967

Ventsi: To be honest, I am afraid to write in my CV that I am Bulgarian. The only thing that gives me away is 968

my name, which, in fact, I changed a little bit because it was too long apparently. What my consultant told 969

me, I go to these consultation meetings every month, like... I am guessing everybody; she told me "Your 970

name, it's a very weird name…" (Ventsi griner) So I was like "Yes but, it's my name." (Alle griner) "What can 971

I do with it?" So, she suggested that I should write the short version, you can see here... without the ‘slav’ 972

at the end, so I did this and that's the only thing that gives me away. 973

Kami: Really? On the Linkedin course related told us, like, we should write, for example, if we have a very 974

common name then we should use like the middle name or the second surname, or something, so we make 975

ourself more distinct than the all the other applicants, for example. So there again difference of opinion 976

about this thing (Ventsi: Yes). 977

Roxi: Yeah but maybe she was referring, like, maybe she said that something about her middle name that 978

was very uncommon (Kami: Yeah). But then again there're… in Denmark there are many similar names. 979

31

Kami: Yeah, If you come... Yeah there are many common names. But she said something like that so it was 980

actually like a plus if you name is something like more uncommon, or something. (utydelig) 981

Roxi: So we don't need to... I mean we already stand out with the name, so... 982

Kami: Yeah, I think so. 983

Roxi: Yeah but it is a bad (utydelig). 984

Anja: But otherwise, do you feel like you can be Bulgarians or Romanians? 985

Kami: I guess if our culture interferes with the working culture, or something, then it's a problem. As I said 986

with the 15 minutes late, or something, that will be a problem. Maybe the first time, not the second time, 987

not third time will be a problem. And I have spent lectures of 40 minutes yelling by the teacher "Why are all 988

the foreigners late" or something. This is not why I went to school for, but uhm... I guess these things, but 989

all and all like... I don't find it like, such a problem. I don't have to hide it, or something. 990

Ventsi: But in fact I've been here for five years and most of us, like, for even more, and I feel pretty 991

integrated like, I am quite used to the way the Danish do their work, like very structured, really... like... to 992

the point. So I am really used to this kind of... of life and I don't feel that it's a problem. 993

Anja: It's okay with you? 994

Ventsi: Totally okay. Actually I prefer it. 995

Kami: It's not like other people have to change for me. I am the foreigner here. I should like, change a bit 996

like, to integrate myself (Ventsi: yeah, exactly) into the society. So, it is quite fine I think. 997

Anja: Yeah... somebody disagree with that? 998

Eliza: I disagree somehow, because Denmark says that we need the foreigners. So that means, not only us 999

have to change, but they also have to be open for change. And this is what we see, that the majority is 1000

really against this change and you cannot just say I am not Romanian and say no to everything that 1001

represents you. You have to keep your... you have some rules... (Ventsi: yes but, you should agree) that 1002

they are you. 1003

Ventsi: You should agree that when you go out and work, on your job you must be one kind of person, but 1004

when you go out of the job, when you're home, you can be whatever you want. You can be as Romanian as 1005

you want. 1006

Kami: Yeah, I'm just saying about this few rules, for example, like to not be late to not use maybe so much 1007

irony when you talk with your colleges or some… these are like few small things, you know, that will make, I 1008

don't know, your communication in your everyday... (Eliza: Don't complain. Never complain)… life better. 1009

Yes… These there're like few small things but it's not like I've been totally limited to not express my 1010

Bulgarian roots or something. No I’m speaking my language everywhere and nobody is saying anything, i 1011

can buy food what comes kind of like from Bulgarian there are Serbian and Turkish shops here and etc. I 1012

don't find it like this I’m somehow pressed or i like not say that I'm Bulgarian. 1013

32

Anja: Do you feel like... Denmark, Danish whatever, they are changing for your sake? (Alle: no). 1014

Nick: The bottom line in my opinion is that; if we have come here to seek job opportunities and to integrate 1015

ourselves, we are the ones who have to adjust according to the Danish society. We cannot freely expect for 1016

the Danish society to adjust according to ourselves, because they are not the ones who have come to 1017

Bulgaria to seek a job. 1018

Eliza: But it's not that. It's like just to make you feel welcome. As everybody said; you don't feel welcome, 1019

although, that Danish state constantly says, this is the main massage, "We need foreigners, we need 1020

foreigners." And... but you still don't feel welcome here and only that, so, not maybe, not like renegading 1021

your... saying "no" to your culture, or something, but you still don't feel welcome. There is something... 1022

(utydelig) 1023

Ventsi: But, again, this is very subjective, you know, because we are in a Danish home right now and i feel 1024

really welcome here (Kami: Yeah). You know... 1025

Eliza: Yeah. Of course but generally... 1026

Kami: Feeling welcome does not mean, I don't know, there should be leaflets in Bulgarian, you know, or 1027

something. (Ventsi: yeah.) 1028

Eliza: No, no, no, no, no... 1029

Kami: No, just... Ahm... I mean, I know that there have been a lot of discussions in the... in the Danish 1030

society because there are some... I have heard about kindergartens and elementary schools, who are... who 1031

have been pressed to not serve pork meat to the kids or celebrate Christmas or something, because of like, 1032

some... because it might seem like a bit of discrimination because there are Muslim kids there, and they 1033

don't celebrate this... fast and they don't eat this food or something. So therefor they are changing the 1034

whole thing and this have been actually an issue for a lot of discussions because... the... Christmas is a 1035

Danish tradition. You cannot take away the Danish traditions for Danish kids because there are foreigners 1036

who do not celebrate Christmas, and actually when we have... uhm, discussed this in my language courses 1037

then, all of us eastern Europeans we actually are quite okay with celebrating the Danish holidays because 1038

we are in Denmark. You should celebrate the Danish holidays. Nobody is stopping me celebrate my 1039

holidays. I'm very thankful for that. Also, this... this does not mean that Christmas should be celebrating in 1040

the Bulgarian way into the kindergarten if like; I am in this kindergarten or something... So... maybe we 1041

don't feel like... like this... maybe like as it is with the situation with the Muslim people or something... 1042

But... yeah... it's not like that hard or they... it's not that... the Danish society have to change for us or 1043

something... I don't know. 1044

Ventsi: Yeah, we have to adjust to the Danish society (Folk: yeah). 1045

Anja: Diana do you have anything to add? 1046

Diana: Actually, I do agree with this one. Because, I mean... it's not like the Danish came in our countries, 1047

the other way around. However, I'd also agree in a way with Eliza in... it's a point of perspective. I think 1048

that... if you want to open or you do not want to be open... to welcome other nationalities into your 1049

country then... If you are not open... if you are not ready for it, then don't just ask for it, don't... I don't 1050

33

know. (Eliza: It's a...) I mean yes... we adapt... we try to adapt, but give us a change for that (Folk er enige). 1051

That's the way I'm trying to say it (Folk: yeah). 1052

Eliza: Just imagine somebody home in Romania or Bulgaria and... you find this message... you hear this 1053

message that "Danmark needs you. Come there." It's a huge financial effort. I used everything I gained for 1054

three years to come here and I also borrowed money... and that money was enough for a few months. So it 1055

was a difference. So it's a huge financial investment to come here. Of course it is your choice, but if the 1056

government says that... then you come and it's not even... 10% as they advertise it. Then... yes. 1057

Anja: But they advertising in Bulgaria and Romania? 1058

Eliza: Yes. Many (utydelig)... (Ventsi: I haven't seen). 1059

Anja: No? 1060

Roxi: Yes they do... they do all these tours and they make presentations at high schools and they do... 1061

Anja: In Romania? (Folk: yeah). So in Bulgaria, have you seen it? 1062

Kami: No. There was a lot about, maybe, or speaking about the education because the education here is 1063

free and that not many countries in Europe is free. Also in Bulgaria you have to pay for higher education. So 1064

maybe as an.... 1065

Anja: Is it a university that's representing Denmark, or is it the government, or? 1066

Kami: Ah, there is some who... e.g. I applied through an agency who helped me to get here and I guess they 1067

have contracts with different universities in Europe or a (utydelig) or something like. I don't know and 1068

yeah... It was something like that. 1069

Eliza: So it's a business. (Ventsi: yeah). 1070

Kami: There are also made some fares like university fares (folk er enige) or, I don't know how to call them 1071

and you can also visit them and they are most about university from abroad I don't think they make them 1072

for Bulgarian universities actually (Eliza og Ventsi er enige). 1073

Viktor: But it is not specifically from Denmark... (Folk er enige). 1074

Ventsi: It's from all over the world: USA, Canada, Holland... 1075

Anja: So it's not like Denmark spending money trying to get you to Denmark? 1076

Roxi: No, not... (utydelig) (Eliza: Maybe the university) e.g. one of my friends was in a tour like maybe he 1077

and three... or, I don't know, was representing VIA and was talking at these fares, and making presentations 1078

and telling about the opportunities, which there are, I mean, there is free education, there is a change to 1079

work part time, there is... you can do... way better off. 1080

Anja: Yeah okay. I didn't know that. 1081

Eliza: And, and then if you start searching about Denmark, you find out the politicians are saying this, that 1082

Denmark needs foreigners. This is... (Roxi: Yeah, but they...) message to (utydelig). 1083

34

Roxi: Yeah, but I also find many news that they need new work force (Eliza: yeah) and they need people 1084

and... 1085

Eliza: Yes. And then you get here and... 1086

Roxi: but is was at one Danish course the teacher actually said that; the birth rate is actually going down 1087

and she actually told us; yeah, yeah, we actually need you people to stay in Denmark and work for us. 1088

Kami: May I just say something? It's not like all of the people are coming to Denmark. There are so many, at 1089

least like. If I have to think about all my friends from Bulgaria who went abroad to study, we are maybe 1090

like... most of them went to England actually or Scotland or something and I know a lot of people went to 1091

Holland, to Germany, to Austria. So it's not like Denmark is a target as a country, but it offers a lot of 1092

benefits as... but also these other European countries like Central-Western European countries offer many 1093

benefits so... it's not like everybody comes to Denmark. 1094

Anja: Okay. Let's talk about Danish lessons. Have you taken Danish lessons and why? (Folk griner). Anybody 1095

who hasn't taken Danish lessons? No? So everybody has taken Danish les... Okay, why and why do you take 1096

these? 1097

Diana: I think it's quite obvious (Folk griner). 1098

Kami: Actually, I started in the beginning just so I know how to say 'hi' and I know what I am buying from 1099

the shop, because I was very, like, negatively surprised that on the... on the box of the thing, everything is 1100

written in Danish, Swedish and Norwegian and maybe in Finnish (folk griner). I cannot understand what am 1101

I buying if I was trying to buy something which doesn't have a picture and trying to find the same thing with 1102

the same name, but with a picture so maybe I find out what is inside or something (folk griner). And those 1103

very fucked up and very irritating... and I don't know... I wanted to know what I buy from the shop and to 1104

say hi to people and to maybe... and this other thing to be able to open the newspaper and read the 1105

newspaper or something... this or I don't know... the everyday stuff mostly I started with... but then of 1106

course I (utydelig) up gives you more opportunity to find work, for education, for like communications, for 1107

everything. 1108

Ventsi: It makes your life easier, if you speak Danish. (Kami: Yes, yes.) Really much, much easier. Just simply 1109

going to the shop makes it easier. 1110

Kami: Yeah, asking, yeah. Going to the shop and asking the same question in Danish will takes you like 20 1111

minutes less to deal with than if you had asked it in English or something. 1112

Ventsi: And if you are somebody who is really sensitive to all kinds of stuff like me, like... If I see somebody 1113

looking at me wrongly, because I speak in English, I'm not like it you know. I don't like it at all and I'm ready 1114

to fight for it, you know? It's really irritating me you know and that's why. (Folk griner). 1115

Diana: It's more like a catalyzer for your integration process... (utydelig folk snakker) (Ventsi: (utydelig) ... 1116

catalyst, yeah exactly). 1117

Eliza: ... and actually was accepted now in... After two semesters I managed to get into the Danish group. 1118

Hallelujah! But how? The whole class has accepted me. There... we were three foreigners... and four 1119

35

Danes... I was the only one accepted... why? Because when... once two of the foreigners were not there 1120

and we were supposed to teach each other, present, and they told me "Now you will present in Danish" 1121

so... can imagine... I presented it in Danish and since then I was like they're with them... they are always 1122

talking in Danish among them and the two others. I felt bad for them, but I wanted to see how it is. I was 1123

fully accepted, like jokes, everything and they still contact me. So it's... 1124

Anja: And you think it's because you know Danish? 1125

Eliza: Also because... I proved, for them it's... it was something... amazing that somebody who is here only 1126

for six years and... There are many who... so I'm... I wasn't born here, so I am different and that was 1127

amazing for them, that I could present that hard material in Danish when I prepared in English. So, I don't 1128

know what it is, but something else, but... 1129

Ventsi: Yes, we have to agree all of us. We live in Denmark. Come on. It's natural that people speak Danish. 1130

Don't you... (utydelig) 1131

Kami: It's the official language and everything. You cannot expect that all Danes speak English. No, you 1132

should learn, you know, some Danish. 1133

Ventsi: It is just a happy coincidence that they actually do (folk er enige). But still... 1134

Anja: So in connection with the... connection with finding a job. Is it important to know Danish? (Kami og 1135

Ventsi: Yeah). 1136

Ventsi: At least for everyday... even if the communication in the company is in English for everyday stuff. 1137

Come on. You should at least know how to say 'hello' and 'have a good weekend'. 1138

Kami: Even in big companies, because they have many times given me the example, as, you know, big 1139

companies as Siemens or Arla or something like this... although your work might be in English, still, you 1140

know... only for these lunch breaks or something... Your employer would like you to know some Danish, so 1141

you can like communicate a bit, you know, with your colleagues or something. It's for benefit. 1142

Roxi: It's like. If you show an interest... it helps if you show interests, starting with the language and... yes... 1143

definitely... 1144

Diana: E.g. this Microsoft Package I've always seen it in Danish on Danish computers. There is nothing in 1145

English and it's funny for me because, like... everything like the, the language of the computer it's Danish. 1146

So when I was e.g. an internship, of course I already knew Danish, I have everything in Danish on my own 1147

computer, but it was funny I don't know if... it felt like so... 1148

Kami: Like you are sitting on a computer for a first time (Folk griner). 1149

Diana: Yeah, I... it's... it's... I don't know... I know even... even something new I mean I don't know. Usually 1150

for me, the language of computers is English. So no matter what everything like Skype, Facebook and 1151

everything else I've had it in English. Now I have them all in Danish, I don't know. It's not like "Oh my God, I 1152

want to integrate because I have this Danish" it's just because I got used with it. Using them in Danish, 1153

but... it's funny, what I was saying, yeah... 1154

36

Roxi: So when you get a hybrid computer in Danish it's like... 1155

Kami: ... with the question, like, if it helps with the job integration, like, when you start with all this. When 1156

you sign up for job a job center as an unemployed and etc. One of the first thing what they assign you to do 1157

is treat Danish. If you have not, like, used your, like, this... it was three years before, now I think it is one 1158

year, or something, of free Danish courses, then they are... yeah, kinda like they are forcing you to go, 1159

because... there is nothing better for you to do, to help you find work, and actually... learning the language 1160

and I don't know. 1161

Anja: But does this intrude with your cultural background? That you have to learn Danish? 1162

Ventsi: No, it enriches it. 1163

Kami: As I've said. All of us... I'm pretty sure that all of us can speak at least three different languages, so 1164

learning another one is not such a big problem and it's not something different or such a big dif... 1165

Ventsi: Unknown or something, so scary that everybody is ‘AAA’! I need to learn this... 1166

Roxi: It's probably the way that language is (utydelig) 1167

Eliza: Actually, I only had maybe three interviews in English and the rest of them were in Danish. Also at 1168

Maersk... at Dong as well... IBM also, as well… 1169

Ventsi: So you've had interviews at these? 1170

Eliza: Yes. (Roxi: Cool). I call them, I speak in Danish, because I have seen that it works and sometimes I see 1171

an announcement. I am interested in that, but I'm not 100 % that profile. So I call and I say "Look, this is my 1172

profile" can you do something, an internship, whatever? Maybe they say no, maybe they say yes. For 1173

instance now I got contact from LEGO again. He just send me a list of all e-mail addresses of whom I can 1174

contact, but it was just a job announcement which didn't... wasn't my profile at all, but I called and I 1175

insisted, but do you know something for me? So, it can work being this... and also speaking in Danish, yes. 1176

Ventsi: Yes. For me also it gives a lot of results. Since I started writing and communicating in Danish. A lot, a 1177

lot of results, like, I can feel that it's going back a little before. Yes, so. 1178

Eliza: At Maersk it was like, wow, you know... actually one of them was from Holland, so you know, we had 1179

half of it in English so he would understand, then she said, the HR, now we turn to Danish because we want 1180

to test your Danish as well and they were like wow, and (utydelig) also have them on my LinkedIn, because 1181

they said they were... they liked me, but they had a profile that fit best... better person that fit better to 1182

that profile and they have given my CV to the IT department in hope of a future collaboration, so it works, 1183

but you have to be persistent and if you start speaking in Danish... prepare... write down exactly, because... 1184

Ventsi: But there again. You should never forget you are an educated professional. You deserve respect 1185

(Eliza: exactly) do you know what I mean? 1186

Eliza: Yes. (Folk snakker). 1187

Ventsi: Seriously, I'm serious about these... you deserve respect because you are an educated professional 1188

who speaks three fucking languages. Sorry for the language. 1189

37

Eliza: Exactly, exactly. So it... but... because you... maybe... the Danish school doesn't really help you to 1190

speak Danish at that level. And maybe you don't have that, so it's good where you can meet the Danes. 1191

Now, I will tell you, I have found out after two years, almost two years. Just think what's your interest. Do 1192

you like collecting mushrooms? Then find a mushroom society or a group (Ventsi: Yep). Join them and... 1193

You like, you like to run? Find a group! There must be a group that does that, but this is something they 1194

don't tell... this is what they should tell you right from the beginning - network, but network like this; find 1195

your main interest or maybe something that is... say, okay that's also, and then with... you meet with them 1196

every week.. (Kami: Actually...) and will learn. 1197

Kami: Actually there was this project "welcome", as I know it's not functioning from April, or something, 1198

but it was, and they had this meetings for new, newcomers (Eliza: Mhm), like foreigners or coming to live in 1199

Horsens and Hedensted, and they had a really... they make like one meeting where the mayor comes and 1200

like, kind of like, wishes you welcome to Horsens, or something. And actually, there I learned a lot of these 1201

hobby clubs, let’s say, and in this area here there're, like, several... there're hundreds and hundreds of 1202

these clubs, like depending on what do you like to do, or something. So, there is a way to (Eliza: But 1203

maybe...) hear about it (Eliza: But maybe...), but if you have heard this meeting, so you go to this meeting 1204

(Eliza: Exactly) , so you hear this thing from that meeting, you know, or something. It's a... yeah. 1205

Eliza: I had a... (Kami: So, finding information is very hard) in "welcome", I had over 10 friends, who were 1206

acting, none of them, I was meeting with some every week. None of them told me of the existence of 1207

"welcome". (Kami griner) 1208

Anja: What do you mean about "welcome"? 1209

Eliza: Welcome is a projects. This is a project (Ventsi: Project) and, (Kami: Just an.., yeah) yes. None of 1210

them. (Anja: So to you meet with foreigners, or what?). Also they were trying to mix, or they also had this 1211

"Coffee with a Dane" or "Dinner with a Dane". 1212

Kami: It's again about integration of foreigners (Anja: Okay) into the, into the area, like in Horsens or 1213

Hedensted, just, yeah. 1214

Eliza: So, you don't get this information package or maybe you don't get it in the way you were... if you get 1215

a book on it, that's not really interesting sometimes, so ... If you would get it somehow more personally, in 1216

school or... whatever. Or if you missed this meeting (Kami griner) then maybe you could meet with another, 1217

like, a job center, or. (Kami: Yeah, it's hard to find like... way to ask.) Its first meeting. They need to say, they 1218

could tell you this. 1219

Anja: Yeah, okay. But since we are talking about network, have you gotten a network that you can 1220

use...now, to get a job? 1221

Kami: Like old classmates... (Kami griner) I don't know. I don't know, that's not really successful, so. 1222

Ventsi: To be honest, I tried to use my old classmates network - didn't work. 1223

Eliza: I can use my, the network from the company I worked for, and... But I have a problem, in... When... 1224

the recommendation system. I'm pretty okay with... I send an application, I send, I give the names - these 1225

can recommend me and they call; and they call me and expert and whatever my colleagues, they were very 1226

38

crazy about this. But I'm not okay with somebody saying, "I know somebody and I'm arranging you to get a 1227

job". I am not okay with that, because I am used to fighting, to deserve it, and not like this. It feels like back 1228

home for "ura studenta"... how do you call them? 1229

Anja: Erasmus studerende? 1230

Eliza: No URA. (Roxi: URA) (Anja: URA?) 1231

Ventsi: Yeah, it's like Erasmus but it's URA. 1232

Eliza: No, no. Law students. (Ventsi: Aaa) If they have their father or somebody, you know, like, inside, they 1233

can... So, it doesn't matter what they can actually do and I felt like that. I... I got two job offers like that and 1234

I felt exactly like that and I, I said no. 1235

Roxi: And you said no? 1236

Eliza: Yes. 1237

Roxi: I don't think (Anja: What about you?) that is only for law students in Romania. 1238

Diana: It's in Hungary I think. 1239

Roxi: But, did they, like, tell you so directly, that they are arranging for to get a job, I mean... 1240

Eliza: they told me directly. "I have a arrange you.. I take you to visit". She took me home to the guy. "Okay, 1241

now, what kind of job do you like?" 1242

Kami: Product escort job? (Eliza: No) (folk griner) 1243

Diana: That was a tough one. 1244

Eliza: No, actually, this one - no, this one - no. It was an engineering job in Kamstrub, in Skanderborg. 1245

Anja: Nick, what about you? 1246

Nick: Well, as far as networking goes, ever since I graduated... Actually, on graduation day, the head of our 1247

department said "There is this VIA alumni group on LinkedIn, so if you join it, we would be trying to keep in 1248

touch there and leave us your e-mails, etc. etc." But I noticed that in this group, there are actually some job 1249

postings from time to time, directed specifically at people with qualifications like mine and my classmates'. 1250

So I guess there are some opportunities there. Yeah, so... But, so much for that. Other than that from my 1251

classmate networks and I have my former classmates, from back in Bulgaria, in my network, but I haven't 1252

gotten a real benefit from that. 1253

Anja: Yeah, okay. What about you Viktor? 1254

Viktor: My networking is not that good. So I'm beginning to work on that now, that… (Anja: Yeah, okay) 1255

starting naked so... I'm a person that doesn't have Facebook, so you can understand. I am not used to 1256

networking very well. 1257

Anja: Yeah, yeah. 1258

39

Ventsi: Exactly, I was going to say some people are actually not so comfortable writing to somebody on 1259

Facebook, like "Hey, can you get me a job, or...?" For me, it's really uncomfortable, I don't like to annoy 1260

people like this, you know, and I have to, because I'm unemployed. 1261

Roxi: Yeah, but, I mean, do you have to ask like that? Can't you ask, like, softly? 1262

Ventsi: Well, okay, okay, okay. I'm not... 1263

Roxi: "So, do you know some..." (utydelig folk snakker) Isn't that what networking is about? It's not like 1264

they "Hey, I may arrange for you to get this job, but hey I know this one and you can meet up and you can 1265

decide." It's not... I mean, I refuse to think it will happen like in Romania, I mean... no, no, no... I mean... I 1266

think here with the big diplomacy and you know, like, everyone knows someone that know someone and... 1267

It has to happen somehow. 1268

Kami: And when you say about networking also my A-kasse offers these workshops. I think they have 1269

several in Danish and in English and they have for new graduates or for some others, I'm not like really 1270

sure, but they have these network meetings and I think maybe once a month or something. 1271

Ventsi: Don't you need to travel to Aarhus? 1272

Kami: I think so, I think so, but I mean... I guess also fag... whoever is a member of a fagforening, maybe 1273

they also have some labor unions right? They also have some... some maybe network meetings or some 1274

meetings that... I mean your... your labor union is a network, in one way or another, because it is all 1275

colleagues, kinda like, so maybe they have some... 1276

Eliza: IDA has the... one of the hugest labor network actually, but as I told you; you just meet them, maybe 1277

if you meet them... at different events, then you start connecting, but still its' not... you only have two 1278

days... (utydelig) 1279

Ventsi: Networking means friends. Do you know? And it is not so easy to make friends when you are 25 and 1280

above. (Diana: I have a question!) It's easy when you're 12, maybe... 1281

Diana: (Rømmer sig) I'm sorry. I feel offended right now. 1282

Ventsi: I am like, you know, me too. (Diana og Ventsi griner). Do you know what I mean, so I'm telling you. 1283

There is a certain circle of people which you surround yourself with. You know? (Utydelig, folk snakker). 1284

Roxi: I don't think it's... (utydelig) you can always like... you can join some, you know, as you said... these 1285

groups or this hobby. You make friends and then you... I dunno, I mean... (Folk: yeah yeah). Yeah, I mean 1286

you can always meet up new people and... Connections and... 1287

Eliza: Yeah... I have a question to all of you. I'm sure that all of you have acquaintances or friends who have 1288

gotten jobs. Did anyone of those recommend you for a job? 1289

Kami: I'm not really sure. I didn't ask. I'm not really sure I have asked them for that. I don't know how 1290

many... how many people actually who have a job, you know. I will not say my friends... people with my 1291

profession... there are very few and it was so difficult for them to find a job. I don't think I will bother them 1292

asking their bosses for a job for me, at least after the first year or something, I don't know, so they're for 1293

40

sure they are gonna stay in their jobs or something and most of my colleagues they actually move away 1294

from here. 1295

Eliza: Because, I have seen that Danes actually recommend you, if you have worked with them. They are 1296

willing to recommend you and they are willing also to contact the companies in your behalf, but I cannot 1297

say the same about Romanians or... (Roxi: If you did a good job) even if they have a job for four or five years 1298

they still resents, like, they still say "mm", like, when I worked for that company I brought in a Chinese guy. 1299

He needed practical placement, he couldn't find and I brought in, but that doesn't happen... even for 1300

internships, people who are in and you know them, not too many would push you in. Let's say. (Kami: mm). 1301

Anja: You were looking at Ventsi, Viktor? 1302

Viktor: I was joking. 1303

Anja: You were joking. 1304

Viktor: Yeah. 1305

Ventsi: In fact I did try to get recommended by Valeri, you know... and actually I did get to an interview 1306

thanks to his name. His name... still, it was okay, but you do not ask for this, like, systematically... All the 1307

time, it's impossible. 1308

Roxi: Yeah, but see he helped you to get an interview. I mean, from this kind of help to the help... him 1309

telling the person responsible for employment you, yeah this guy is really good, I mean it's long distance. 1310

Ventsi: Still I don't want to do this. 1311

Roxi: Yeah, I don't think everyone... anyone wants that. 1312

Kami: But also with this unskilled works, I was saying, with the cleaning or vicar etc. these for us... as most 1313

of us said, we get it through friends you know, like, it's a friends who says "Okay I have this friend. She's 1314

really working really hard", you know and "etc. really fast. Do you maybe need some people" you know and 1315

then... it's like this, or... there is a way. I don't know. Jealous is a very strong factor I think in our eastern 1316

European culture (Folk er enige) or something. (utydelig, folk snakker). Yeah, envy and yeah etc. etc. and 1317

also this self... self-respect or, I don't know, so how can I go and beg for a job, or something. 1318

Eliza: Or self promovation so and the others must... you have to stay up somehow. 1319

Roxi: Yeah, and you're not to stay united, it's like... 1320

Anja: So I am hearing that the network you get is not the... it's not Danish, because it is difficult to get a 1321

Danish network and the network you have, when you are foreign friends, is not that effective because of 1322

your (utydelig). 1323

(utydelig folk snakker) 1324

Ventsi: Not only are... you should also not know that e.g. for an eastern European to get to a job it's been 1325

hell, you know? So they want to keep this job, like, (laver lyd) really a lot. So they will never ever jeopardize 1326

them losing their job in order to recommend you. Do you know what I mean? 1327

41

Diana: You know. I have a recommendation for you. 1328

Ventsi: Yes? 1329

Diana: Why don't you sign up for a group on Facebook or something, for people that talk with such 1330

(utydelig) (folk griner) with this! and that! and oh my God! Like you know? (folk griner) Because really, I 1331

mean, you are so; like this! and like a... and oh my God, oh my God (Diana griner videre) Really. (Diana 1332

refererer til Ventsis brug af armfagter). 1333

Ventsi: Do you see, what she describes a problem for me, you know? I've done (utydelig) this all the time. 1334

(folk snakker) 1335

Anja: So, there's only a few questions left and those are the most interesting in my opinion. So how do you 1336

experience the Danish job market overall? 1337

Eliza: There are a lot of jobs available. Some of them not published, that I am sure of and as... we reach this 1338

conclusion for Danes it's easier. Only if they don't want to work, they won’t find work, but for us it's hard to 1339

break into it. So it isn't about, even if they say that, there are not enough jobs for all, there are. Cause you 1340

can see sometimes the same job at running for over half a year. 1341

Kami: I have experienced... I haven't experienced it a lot, because it's been a bit unwelcoming for me the 1342

Danish labor market, but something what I experience here is definitely what we have started to talk a bit 1343

before, that here there is all kinds of different educations. We are very, like, concentrated into specific... 1344

not even specific area, but (utydelig) specific tasks, what you are doing, or something, and in our countries, 1345

maybe it's a bit different and maybe that's why I have also bit of difficulties of finding work, because I 1346

should find work only as a constructing architect or something like that. Because, finding work as a designer 1347

or something, then I am going to a different professional field where... and there are other designers, I 1348

mean, you have to be educated in the thing that you are gonna work, you know, or something. So maybe 1349

this is a bit of a difference in the labor market, which I am thinking as... we don't have so many kinds of 1350

education back at home, but we can do many things with one education or something. 1351

Nick: Yeah, it's a... something else about the Danish labor market. I noticed that Danes are more willing to 1352

cooperate with each other than with e.g. Bulgarians or Romanians. Cause, e.g. when I have been in the 1353

teachers room at the university, speaking to some teacher and a Danish guy comes in and he starts talking 1354

about... talking to somebody else and I overhear the conversation "this and that, and I am looking for an 1355

internship" and the teacher says "Aa I might just know the guy who can help you. I'll give him a call and 1356

then I will let you know." At the end of the day, most of the Danes they go for their internship in some 1357

Danish company and then they end up going back there to work after they graduate, which is not the case 1358

for eastern Europeans as we, most of us don't even find internships here in Denmark. 1359

Ventsi: Thanks to the exact same reasons which we don't get jobs now. (Nick og Kami siger yeah). Exact 1360

same reasons. Just a bit earlier in the education. 1361

Anja: Okay. Does your classmate from VIA have a job right now. You said that all your Danish class mates 1362

they have a job, but do you know if they have a jobs? 1363

Eliza: Yeah. 1364

42

Kami: Most of them 1365

Ventsi: All of them. All of them I know 1366

Diana: The Danish people? All of them. 1367

Kami: I think most of mine don't. 1368

Anja: Why do they have a job right now? 1369

Diana: And actually, most of them started, as they started, with an internship and then actually they remain 1370

there I remember (utydelig) she told me, like "Oh my God I just love this one and bla bla bla and bla bla bla" 1371

and I was like okay perfect. So did you get the job? "Oh no I am still on internship I don't know if I would 1372

like to stay there, because they ask too much" and so on, and I was like... okay, but if they ask you to "Yeah 1373

they proposed me to". Really! I mean, they propose you to... and you were... you answered "I will think 1374

about it"? 1375

Eliza: They have lots of choices. 1376

Diana: No really?! 1377

Roxi: You don't want to look desperate either. 1378

Anja: But why do they have a job and you not? 1379

Eliza: You know, what a Danish friend of mine said? From Aarhus... He said... kandidat in Mechanical 1380

Engineering... he says "I am one of the worse in this field. I can barely pass my exams. Most of them are 1381

failed. Two times at least" and then he says "But you know what? I will find a job almost instantly which for 1382

you it will be harder. Just because I am a Dane." Everybody can find... because they have a network and 1383

they are... the Danes somehow they... help each other. 1384

Anja: Do you have anything to add to that? 1385

Kami: As I said, I have so many Danes in my class, but I don't really know what's going on with them, but I 1386

think they have jobs, because they were craftsmen before, so they are really into the professional field, but 1387

then again, all the foreigners... I don't think many of them have a job. I think that actually really few of 1388

them have a job, especially in Denmark, and most of them just move away like, go back home, because 1389

that's the easiest possible way to find a job, or they go in another country, where maybe the language for 1390

them... isn't such a big difficulty as England, you know? Or something. And... yeah, I don't think there are so 1391

many with a job. 1392

Anja: Have you thought about leaving Denmark because of your experience? And I want you all... I actually I 1393

want all of you to say, to say a few words that... We can start... Let's start here actually. We go there all the 1394

time. Have you thought about leaving Denmark Viktor? 1395

Viktor: Yes, I have, because negative experiences and well I couldn't find an internship for quite long time. 1396

These reasons and in the end I found an internship in Bulgaria, thanks to Nikola and I was quite hard 1397

thinking about staying there, but then I decided that probably here I'll have a better life, so I did come, so. I 1398

43

still have the opportunity to go back and I have told them that I'm still thinking of it. So, at some point in 1399

the next year, probably I can't find a job I go back. 1400

Kami: I did leave Denmark as I said for like three months when I was trying to find work at home dur... 1401

this... opportunity again, which is offered by the A-kasse like to search for a job in another country for three 1402

months, I don't know, It's not like I just put... packed my bags and went home or something. But uhm, yeah, 1403

I am considering and... as I said... I am going after a Masters in another country maybe. Just because I will 1404

try to see, how is gonna go in another country. I tried here. It's not really working, or something, and... I 1405

don't think that I should stay here if I am gonna work as a cleaner or something. I don't wanna do that and 1406

I... I imagine things different here and I don't feel, maybe, satisfaction in what I have right now or 1407

something. And I think I would like to see if maybe I can get more somewhere else, if I can express myself 1408

more somewhere else. 1409

Ventsi: Yeah, for me it's yes and no, because really I have been thinking about preserving myself and just 1410

going back home where it's safe and sound, but still I really like Denmark. Really like to be here, you know, 1411

really a lot, so I will stay here. If I don't get a job due September, I'm going into a Master degree. Even if I 1412

don't get a job after that... We will see (Ventsi griner). 1413

Nick: First of all, I have been unemployed for a very short time to... to really start thinking about leaving 1414

Denmark, but I'm also planning like him to undertake a Master’s degree from the autumn semester, 1415

because when I was due to graduate I thought about; okay, so I have two options; I can look for Master or I 1416

can look for a job, but then it will reflect back on the period when I was looking for an internship here in 1417

Denmark, and I send out maybe 40 applications and got only two positive answers at companies where 1418

the... where the conditions weren't that good. Therefore, I decided to opt for going from Master’s degree 1419

and then after that goes, I will reevaluate my options again. 1420

Roxi: I've been thinking also a lot about this, but mostly I will not leave Denmark just yet... I am still... I will 1421

still give it a try until autumn... I also signed up for Masters. I think I can still try better to find a job like... I 1422

didn't use all my... energy and resources. You know, and... if I go back to Romania, I would like to go with 1423

one year of experience. I would like to go with way more experience than do something better... I wouldn't 1424

like to start, like, from almost lowest... Yeah, and I'm also thinking; so I spend so much time with 1425

accommodating here and learning Danish and integrating and now just go... I would need some certainty. 1426

Kami: It would be a shame, like, to lose it or move somewhere else. 1427

Roxi: Yeah, and I wouldn't go before I have a job somewhere. I wouldn't like to go and start over and 1428

wonder there, like, e.g. going in Romania and live there and look there, it's... no. No I would... stay here and 1429

try harder. 1430

Anja: Diana? 1431

Diana: Actually, almost the same like her (Roxi), but... I am thinking of spending those three months in the 1432

summer and going to UK probably I'll... if I'm getting something in there I'll just remain there. That's it. 1433

Eliza: Well... I... As I told you, I jumped out from A-kasse... I managed to get into the university (utydelig) 1434

had one week (utydelig) they are starting, but they advertise he had an open position, so I applied, I 1435

44

jumped in there, and at the same time I told my friends to buy me a Romanian phone card... phone 1436

number, because I cannot get a job in Romania if they see that it's a Danish number. 1437

Kami: Sorry. You are looking for work also in Romania while looking for work here? 1438

Eliza: But now I got an internship in Siemens, so we will see how this will turn out. (Kami: okay). 1439

Anja: Could you have done more to have gotten a job in Denmark? 1440

Diana: Probably if we would have had the right information, the proper information, from the very 1441

beginning, I am quite sure we wouldn't have wasted much time... that much time. We've already done. I'm 1442

also quite confident because... I would say like in a way many people flooded Denmark, in a way, like 1443

coming here do to the free taxes for... but also, you know, that also contributed to economy and so on, so... 1444

I think... it depends really... 1445

Anja: Roxi you were nodding? 1446

Roxi: If I could have done better... 1447

Anja: Could you have done more, yeah. 1448

Roxi: Yeah, or more, yeah... Yeah, because I don't feel like I used all the possibilities around the... but, I also 1449

blame myself for this, you know, psychological downside, you know, this... 1450

Anja: Being abroad, is that what you mean? 1451

Roxi: No. This being unemployed and... (Kami: totally) you know, it's like... you... sometimes you enter this 1452

vicious circle. You're like a... sad... because, you know, you don't do anything and then you... it's hard to do 1453

stuff, because you are sad and you have to get out in the day and really kick in the butt. 1454

Diana: That's self-pity. 1455

(Folk snakker) 1456

Roxi: Yeah, it's all so bad. 1457

Kami: Yeah, it's quite bad, but at some point you do get to this stage... 1458

Roxi: Yeah, it's almost embarrassing to admit, because you know, about the... 1459

Eliza: You have to sell yourself, but how to sell yourself if you think you don't work (Ventsi: Exactly, Kami: 1460

Yeah, yeah)(Utydelig) you know it gives you this... you are trying... no, no, no I'm not even an answer as you 1461

said and then you get to that point when you... in the beginning you have seen your value and suddenly you 1462

see... your value will be the reflection of the, so... it wouldn't come from the inside, it would come from 1463

outside. How the others look at you. They say no to you; it means I don't have value (Kami: yeah, yeah). 1464

And then, as I told you. Even... by a chance you get an interview, you cannot convince them. 1465

Kami: I don't know. Generally, of course, I feel like I didn't do good enough or something. I don't have a job 1466

if I... if I had a job, then yeah, I did good enough, I mean. They are so connected. If you have tried, you 1467

know, then you would have had a job, you know, you have received a job, or something, so... I'm 1468

45

unemployed yes, so I guess there was something that they didn't do or... I didn't do it right or, didn't do it 1469

hard enough or, I don't know. It just... it's been too long time asking myself these questions, I cannot find 1470

an answer to... anymore. 1471

Anja: Viktor, what do you say? 1472

Viktor: Yeah, I stopped, wait... what was the question? (Folk griner). 1473

Anja: The question was... if you could have done more to have gotten a job? 1474

Viktor: Yes, yes... I could have. Definitely. 1475

Anja: Yeah? And is it the same reason this...? 1476

Viktor: The (utydelig) I've been unemployed quite a little time, but... for, before... 1477

Anja: Yeah. And is it because you. Is your answer also, that you could have done more because you are not 1478

employed, or do you know specifically what you could have done more? 1479

Viktor: No, it's not just because I was unemployed and that, but... also I'm... as I said, I'm not very good at 1480

networking (utydelig) stuff like that, so... I have other reasons why I'm... not employed, but... those are 1481

mine... my problems so. 1482

Anja: Okay, fair enough. 1483

Eliza: Yeah, I'm not... for instance there should be an opportunity also for people who are not good at 1484

networking. Maybe you are very good at doing your job and communication, exactly with the colleagues 1485

you have to communicate with, but... the problem is, that here, suddenly, we have to be the sales persona 1486

and... We are not, maybe you are an Mechanical Engineer so you are a good Mechanical Engineer and you 1487

are good at that, yeah? So, why the heck do you have to be a sales person? (Ventsi: Exactly). You know? 1488

(Anja: yeah I know what you mean). And... we also... (Viktor: Problem of the world, mostly not...) - (Folk 1489

griner) But, but... (Ventsi: E.g. also have other...) In Romania you just give your CV and if they say you can 1490

do that, that, that... they call you. I can get a job in Romania... before I came here, to Denmark, I was 1491

getting a job offer every two weeks, from big companies, also from Germany, because they also like that 1492

way. I come here and suddenly I am not worth anything, you know? I have to beg to get a cleaning job 1493

(Kami: Yes). Come on! I was working in a big international company before. 1494

Kami: I think this is one of the worst feelings, when... for years you can't find something like a cleaning job 1495

then. What the hell is wrong with me, like, you know? You really start asking yourself all of these bad 1496

questions, which you should have never asked yourself. 1497

Anja: I know that feeling. I tried to get a cleaning job after I left the military and I couldn't get a cleaning 1498

job. (Kami: Oh my God). And I had the same feeling like; I was a... controlling airplanes and now I can't 1499

clean, but that's because... my mum... but then my mum was like "You're overqualified" Aaa, yeah! (Folk 1500

griner). No but it's true, like, cleaning agencies they want those that have been cleaning before, who 1501

knows... you need to wear gloves and the yellow sponge is for that table and... (Ventsi: Oh my God) No, but 1502

it's true. It's true. They actually want qualified people for that (utydelig). 1503

46

Ventsi: Well maybe I can say I can get a safety education like, personal safety is good, so. 1504

Diana: ... and here we go again with the... (Refererer til Ventsis armfagter) (Utydelig - Folk snakker) Actually 1505

in UK they have safety norms and everything. You cannot work without those. (Ventsi: Yeah, so? We took a 1506

subject you know in school) (Roxi: Well you have to take yourself, but it's (utydelig) cleaning job) 1507

Anja: Okay, but… out of the topic. I only have a few questions left and then we can do whatever. Why do 1508

you want to be employed? 1509

Diana: I think that Maslow's Pyramid or whatever. 1510

Anja: Yeah, but actually, that's been criticized so much that I think it's crap...7 1511

Diana: Yeah, in a way... to a certain point I think so too, but, really like self-esteem and everything else... 1512

integration in society and all these kind of things say it's not this. 1513

Ventsi: The feeling that you're wanted (Diana: Exactly... yeah you are an asset to the comp...) and that 1514

you're valuable (utydelig) every day. 1515

Kami: (utydelig) Yeah, as I said. We don't feel good not working. We actually feel better working or studying 1516

or doing something. I need to have some main purpose in my life, you know, or something, yeah. 1517

Diana. Something that drives you towards your goal, like you set for yourself something. 1518

Roxi: I think once you are employed and you start doing particular job then you find out that; Oh, I want to 1519

develop in that side and then you go there in another direction and you develop yourself more and more, 1520

because maybe it's not everyone's dream to be employed for... yeah, a big corporation, because... I have 1521

one friend and he is a... I think he is like the perfect ideal situation of a person... he is like a very talented 1522

graphic designer and... Okay he is on A-kasse, but he never got depressed that he is not employed, because 1523

he always got projects and how he's working with VIA and he made his own company. So he has, like, a lot 1524

of projects, so he's really busy. So he is doing what he likes and he's living from it. I think that's what 1525

everyone should aim for eventually (Kami: yeah). But, yeah we have to start... with e.g. I don't know what I 1526

would like to do now myself to sustain myself. I know I would like to work in a company. I would like to buy 1527

whatever... 1528

Kami: I guess we are also pressed by society, you know, you have to work. You cannot just chill and do 1529

nothing, you know? It is... we live in a time or maybe, in a country or on a continent, you know or 1530

something, there when... where we... this is part of life or something. It's... just how we're supposed to be, 1531

you know? And not being like this is weird or something. 1532

Eliza: It's also... I agree with Mazlow, actually... because, yeah. As I told you, I come from there. Yeah, I was 1533

here in Romania working... also for my father's company... also for a big corporation and then suddenly I 1534

come here, I bring all the money I got the last three years, invest it here and then suddenly the crisis hits. 1535

No jobs nothing. I survived from 300 kroners from December until August next year. 1536

7 Ups…

47

Kami: There is something there... lifestyle also if I... Okay, when I say lifestyle, but... I was just, you know 1537

(Eliza: yes) and there is a big difference, maybe like, how you live in your home country and then you come 1538

here, maybe you know, with the same income what you have, you know, or something like that. Just... 1539

yeah, maybe, there is. Well maybe not personally for me, but I'm thinking that there are some people who 1540

would like to find a nice paying work here, because they have a certain life style that they would like to 1541

keep, you know, or half you know, or something like that. 1542

Eliza: And the thing is, and then you get pushed down, if you suddenly come from there and... then... it's 1543

the thing you want to value, but then you are hungry (Ventsi fniser). 1544

Ventsi: Then you need something to eat so... (Kami: yeah) (Eliza: You need something...) no matter what 1545

you do, you do it just because it's (utydelig) 1546

Eliza: Yes, and then you have to bang your head (Ventsi: Yup) here you have to accept many things and 1547

that's very humiliating, if you come from there and then suddenly you can only think of the first layer 1548

(refererer til Maslow’s pyramide). Getting the food and the rest... (Ventsi: It's just bonus) yeah, but they... 1549

because you have already been up there, you have this stress and now for instance for me, not having the 1550

job. Maybe if I was back home without a job, I could have done as that friend of yours. Just developing 1551

myself (utydelig) yes, yes, but then I'm always thinking; What if? How can I do what I like, if I don't have 1552

food? And... You need food, you need money. 1553

Roxi: But... you still get A-kasse or what do you get? 1554

Eliza: No, no, no... I finally got the SU, but my expenses are 7000 pr. month... 6-7 and I got... that, so. 1555

Roxi: I don't know yet what is after A-kasse. I don't want to think about it (Folk griner). 1556

Ventsi: I don't think anybody wants to discover... 1557

Kami: There are some other benefits, but you get maybe like, only half of the money and it's kinda like 1558

worse and... as I have... they have explained it to me. You don't want to go into that group of people. You 1559

would like to get yourself into employment before you go to that (Roxi: yeah) time, because you don't want 1560

to get your... in yourself into that... (Folk snakker). 1561

Diana: It's like, when you are going to an interview and they see; Oh my gosh, you have a gab of two year 1562

"Hmm, what have you been doing?" (Utydelig folk er enige) 1563

Roxi: It's like, it can be also like, relevant, but that so annoying, maybe some people had to personal, I don't 1564

know (Kami fniser). 1565

Ventsi: Yeah, e.g. I want to travel for two years. What? 1566

Diana: Yeah, I mean I guess you don't have to. (Diana: If you have the money then) You have to (utydelig) 1567

before you answer that, I guess. 1568

Eliza: Yeah, if I... I tell.. I told one I was traveling last year. Just to calm down I started traveling, I went to 1569

France and everywhere... several months I guess and ehm... they were looking like that. So, it wasn't a good 1570

way to... yeah... 1571

48

Roxi: I think you have to make her answer to each person that asks. You have to look at the person who ask 1572

and figure out, what they would like to hear (Ventsi: Yeah). 1573

Anja: So, is it unfair that you are unemployed? 1574

Ventsi: There is a lot of unemployed people. 1575

Diana: I think it's 50-50, but not really. I mean, you know, I think everyone should have an opportunity at 1576

least, you know. And as you said, most of you said, like, you did not even get the opportunity to get to that 1577

interview. So, you did not even get selected, that's a bit you know, which leads to this self-pity and low self-1578

esteem and de-motivational feelings and everything, you know, that... It gets you to a low level at a certain 1579

point and you just... can't... you know, you can't stand up again, you just want to lay there for a while 1580

longer... and that's the beginning of the end, you know (griner)... not that good (Kami:Yeah, that's bad) it 1581

takes a while to get back on the track again. I've never experienced that, yet, and hopefully not (griner), I 1582

really hope so, but... I am usually very enthusiastic and very positive about many things and that's why I 1583

still... I did not get to one year yet and I still have faith. I already had two internships. I already had courses 1584

and everything else, so... I'm quite positive about it. I know I can do it. it's just, you know, other factors as 1585

well. It's not only here, now and so on. There are other key drivers. 1586

Anja: Nick? 1587

Nick: In my opinion everybody is out there trying to make something of himself and... The bottom line is, if 1588

we have come here to look for a job, we have to accept how the situation is, and there is, in my opinion, 1589

there is not much room for complaint, cause after all, if we are looking for a job here, we have to be ready 1590

for what the pitfalls will be, what the hard times will be and if we find one, then we most probably have 1591

succeeded. If we don't, then I think there are always jobs opportunities back home, or wherever else, and... 1592

Eventually, everybody, well not everybody, but... the people who really what to make something out of 1593

themselves, they manage to. So, I'm positive on that. 1594

Anja: Yeah, ok. 1595

Diana: I have to agree, but, he said (Ventsi), for example, he never even received, in the very beginning 1596

mails, like, at all, to say at least "No, you are rejected. Go.". That's it. I mean, that's actually really 1597

depressing. 1598

Kami: I did not receive those also to my Danish applications. (Eliza: I've received) Actually, to most of them I 1599

don't receive, even an answer, you know, so...(Eliza: I usually, receive.). I never go to that interview, or 1600

whatever, and honestly, really, I think that in the beginning I was super motivated. My motivation went to 1601

down the bottom, really, and... I think before that I actually, I really started concentrating on applying to a 1602

Master’s degree because I said, fuck, this job search is not happening, you know. Fuck Denmark, fuck 1603

everything, you know (Ventsi: Mm) and... After they accept me to this master’s degree, I actually, you 1604

know, it's better because now I know that I have something else, you know, and even now when I send a 1605

job applications, maybe I have a bit more fun doing it, or something, because, I know that it's an extra 1606

thing. I know that I'm gonna study and I don't care anymore if I find a job, or something. Of course, I do 1607

care, but, it's a bit like this, you know. 1608

Ventsi: It's like it takes the pressure (Kami: Yeah. Yes) off your shoulders. (utydelig) 1609

49

Kami: Yes, Exactly. And then you maybe feel more motivated again to do some stuff a bit more active and, 1610

you know, and everything (Ventsi: Yeah) and , yeah. Maybe it's a bit more effective the whole thing, but... 1611

yeah. 1612

Anja: How about you Victor? Is it unfair? 1613

Viktor: Ventsi? 1614

Anja: No, Viktor. 1615

Viktor: No,okay. (Ventsi griner) 1616

Anja: Is it unfair that you are unemployed. 1617

Viktor: No, no, it's not. And I'm yet quite. Well, I'm unemployed for like two months, so. (Anja: Mmm, 1618

okay.) I can't really say it's unfair. (Anja: Okay.) 1619

Ventsi: Yeah, there is a lot of unemployed people everywhere, so. I'm actually very very happy that I have 1620

this opportunity to receive dagpenge, cause otherwise, I don't know where I would be now (Roxi: Yeah, 1621

but... sorry). It's not very pleasant, but, I'm happy that I have the opportunity to search for my job a bit 1622

more, like, relaxed. Okay, I have my monthly income, I have these two years... I can make it. Why not? 1623

Eliza: Unfair. Unfair, but not because you have the opportunity or... but .. why I would say that is because 1624

it's, as I told you, if you are prepared to do a job, then the hiring company should look at that, that you are 1625

good at that, and not... at your capabilities as a sales person. 1626

Ventsi: Well, that's a problem everywhere, not only in Denmark. And (Eliza: No, in Germany...). Actually, do 1627

you know how it's in the USA? You must be like a shark, you know. (Eliza: (utydelig)) You must eat people 1628

with their heads (Eliza: Yeah, yeah, yeah.) (Diana griner) 1629

Eliza: But that's not all over the world. In Germany you can be as good a salesman as possible, as you can, 1630

but you won't get unless it's for a sales. They will look at your CV... 1631

Ventsi: Well, actually, in engineering school they don't train you to be a sales person. (griner) 1632

Eliza: Yes, they are very good in engineering and they don't train you to be a sales person. That's true 1633

(Ventsi: Yep). So... They will call you to the interview, they will look at your CV, they will test you, if you can 1634

do that, if you know that, they will hire you. So, it doesn't matter if you can sell yourself or you can 1635

impress.. "Ooo, she or he is such a nice person"... That has nothing to do in the German society (Ventsi: 1636

Mh.). They look at capable people. (Ventsi: Yeah.) Not at sales people. 1637

Ventsi: For them you are a robot, a machine, who must be doing something. (Alle griner). (Diana: With their 1638

language?). 1639

Eliza: But... Somehow, yeah... but at least you don't feel rejected as a person (Ventsi: Okay. I didn't know 1640

that about German society.) Yeah, here... so if you are good at what you are doing, you can try... because 1641

Germans are more open to... you have to... (Diana: Really?) yes, they are... (Folk griner), (Diana: What is 1642

that advice?!) But then... the only problem will be that later on... you will have to... I have friends who got 1643

into... (Folk fniser stadigvæk). 1644

50

Kami: Yes. The most (utydelig) country in the world. Welcome to Germany. 1645

Roxi: Yeah, but you have to speak German. (Folk griner videre over emnet). 1646

Eliza: But if you try to get into big corporations you can actually make it. I was called to an interview to 1647

Germany. 1648

Ventsi: Do you think they value Danish diploma more in Germany than here? 1649

Eliza: It was Siemens. Last year. 1650

Roxi: You don't speak German? 1651

Eliza: I don't speak anymore... I used to speak it, but now I cannot. (Roxi: Okay, but, yeah you used to...) I 1652

understand it... 1653

Roxi: Now... now I... yeah, but see I'm zero in German. 1654

Eliza: It was in English. It was in English. 1655

Roxi: Yeah, but see. I looked at... okay let's take those jobs in Romania and here and... the jobs I have 1656

seen... the job postings I have seen in Romania... cause I considered that. I could work in an international 1657

company, you know... but they were like... requiring German. I was like; Fuck this! And I get discouraged 1658

that they say "Required German" I don't apply. I mean that's also why I'd lose... I mean. 1659

Eliza: You could try, because actually they pay, most of the German companies, if you see... they don't look 1660

at your language capabilities. They will look at... you can do this professionally. It means... we can teach 1661

you... we can... you can...(Roxi: German?) Yes... and they will... 1662

Ventsi: Actually, there are a lot of companies who will invest in your language education. 1663

Eliza: But they invest in it, so... 1664

Anja: I think I'm gonna stop you now, cause I think we are on a side track. 1665

Eliza: One more? 1666

Anja: No... my last question is actually if there is something you feel like we haven't talked about or 1667

something you wanna... you wanna say? 1668

Kami. We talked about so many things... (Folk er enige). 1669

Nick: Well... to go back to what we spoke about before; the Danish society having to be open to foreigners 1670

looking for a job. Well, for me, the bottom line is that; you finish gradua... education here and Danish 1671

government, give you the opportunity to take money and look for... while looking for a job for a period of 1672

two years. For me, that's a sign of being open and I don't think that things are so dark after all. 1673

Eliza: That is... what you don't know in that rule from the EU. They are forced to do that as they are forced 1674

to do... give SU. They could only modify these... by putting... you have to work 10 hours if you just come to 1675

51

Denmark pr. week, but the... EU is forcing... because Denmark is in EU... has to give the same things to you, 1676

as for their citizen. 1677

Anja: Same rights, but not same benefits. 1678

Eliza: But also a benefits so... 1679

Anja: But the EU is pressing the... Denmark now to give... also the same... money things, you know? SU and 1680

(Ventsi: like equal social rights) Yeah! Well... 1681

Ventsi: And in fact, we get this after five years, though. We need to be in the country for five years... 1682

(Alle, inkl mig selv, siger nej) (Folk snakker) 1683

Ventsi: No, I'm not only talking about SU. It's about equal rights, you know. 1684

Kami: I also haven't experienced SU periods... 1685

Ventsi: Me neither. They say it's very sweet. 1686

Nick: What I was trying to say is that in Bulgaria. If I finish a hard education in Bulgaria no one will be... the 1687

government will not support me for two years in order for me to try and find a job. So... 1688

Ventsi. Don't worry... the Danish government is not supporting you now. It's the working engineers who 1689

does, who do... (Kami og Eliza: yeah.) It's him who do... who is paid his A-kasse tax every three months. 1690

Eliza: Exactly. 1691

Kami: Yeah, that's where the money is coming from. 1692

Nick: Then I take his (peger på Valeri). 1693

Roxi: But you also pay A-kasse tax from A-kasse money. We pay kontingent, so... (Nick: yes). 1694

Eliza: But the thing is... you wouldn't get... (Utydelig - alle snakker). (Diana: Wonderful time. Wonderful 1695

time.) 1696

Anja: You get it back at taxes actually (Kami: Yes, you get this kontingent fradrag afterwards, so...). 1697

Eliza: If they want to continue (Utydelig) (Nick: Never mind) to the Danes. They will also have to give it to 1698

you, because of the rules, but not because... and many Danes are against, right? (Rettet til mig) (Alle er 1699

enige) 1700

Anja: We are not the most welcoming people in giving money to others than ourselves (folk fniser). That is 1701

true. 1702

Kami: Yeah, but then again. I would also have the same opinion. I mean... Why should I pay my taxes to all 1703

fellow (utydelig) Europeans? Or something. I would have absolutely the same opinions. I do understand 1704

those nationalists who don't want to share their tax money for benefits for foreigners, whom just step into 1705

the country or something and gave nothing to the country. 1706

52

Diana: Not really like this. I think it depends on the benefits to... e.g. For this SU thing... In a way I do agree 1707

with it, because it gives you an opportunity to actually focus on your study... 1708

Kami: But it is free studying! (Diana: Exactly) This is enough. Free studying... You are saving yourself 50.000 1709

kroner pr. semester, I think, or pr. year, I'm not really sure. (Eliza: 45 I think) Okay 45.000 is that little bit of 1710

money? That is a lot of money, what they are saving me. Okay, I am happy for that only, you know. (Diana: 1711

That's none of the things I started with...) I don't need some scholarship or something...) 1712

Ventsi: It's not totally for free. The EU is paying for you. So it's actually the taxes from all of the European 1713

countries. Not only from Denmark or from Sweden or Bulgaria, you know? (Folk snakker). (Kami: ...what the 1714

country is paying?) Yes. Our country is paying 1% of its GDP, because... as a membership fee, so... (Folk 1715

griner af en vits). 1716

Anja: Does anyone else have anything you wanna... you wanna say? That hasn't been said? You feel like... 1717

you wanna say something? No? Okay. Then I'm required to ask you if you wanna be anonomous? Anybody? 1718

No? (Kami: No, I don't really care.) (Alle: No). and then... if you want a copy of my thesis... (Kami: Yeah, 1719

maybe I will actually read it after its graded) - (Diana: Yeah) - (Ventsi: Yeah, maybe just this section of us. 1720

See how it turns out). Okay, I told myself you would only get it if I get a 10 or a 12, but... you will get it 1721

anyways, so... and then I just wanna tell you all; thank you so much for coming and this is a... foundation of 1722

my thesis. Without you I wouldn't be able to write it and it's been... very interesting to hear your story and 1723

I'm a little bit sad also, but, yeah... (Diana: Why?) Because, it must suck, right? I mean your situation and... 1724

yeah, now I have to spend 30-35 hours transcribing so that's gonna be awesome, but otherwise thank you... 1725

(Eliza: Questions for you?) and now I want you to give me your number and your e-mail also, so I can write 1726

or all you in case I didn't understand something, or I have some questions, but also I want you to know that; 1727

if you have anything... that you need a Danish person to help you with, just write me. If you have any 1728

questions... elaborations... something. I'm here for you and also I have scribbled down a lot of words down, 1729

that I actually wanna tell you about. Because it feels like you have a lot of questions to a Danish person or 1730

Denmark in general. Why are we like this? Stuff like that. So... you are free to go if you want. 1731

(I alt knap 3 timers interview. Herfra blev respondenterne i en times tid ekstra for at hyggesnakke. Følgende 1732

er relevante uddrag fra denne samtale) 1733

(Pause) 1734

Eliza: You know... in one of the Danish classes, there were the Danes and they were always talking during 1735

the class like; they were discussing everything with the teacher and the foreigners... just from time to time, 1736

if the teacher (utydelig). Then I go to that classroom and the teacher is asking something... I have seen that 1737

the Danish did not... I send an answer... I do that... (hånd i vejret) three times and then suddenly from the 1738

Danes' side, one is saying very loudly "You smart ass wouldn't you shut up?". 1739

Anja: Because you were talking all the time? 1740

Evgeniya: No because she as answering the questions? 1741

Eliza: No I answered the questions... it was their privilege... 1742

(Pause) 1743

53

Eliza: ... and I staid longer in the class-room. I had to write something and when I left I had caught two of 1744

my colleagues and a teacher talking and until I got to them I could hear them and they were like "You 1745

should introduce something that foreigners couldn't get better grades than us. The presence in the class-1746

room should weigh in the grades"... So, and somehow I didn't feel good about this, so I said "I'm sorry 1747

shouldn't the performance count the most?" and what I can tell you at the exam, I was failed. I did the 1748

same thing for the... I had given what the subjects... also to the person who got the same close by... that 1749

person got a 7 and I was failed with... (pause)... 00. (Pause) You see this in Romania wouldn't happen. You 1750

wouldn't be... you wouldn't fail, just because the teacher doesn't like you (Alle griner fordi de er uenige). 1751

(Pause) 1752

Anja: Can you tell me what this... I don't recognize this, so I don't understand why your teachers, they 1753

wanna separate or tell you... no I give you... I give the Danish people better grades than you. I don't 1754

understand... you feel like the teachers are doing it on purpose. Giving you worse grades because you're 1755

foreigners right? 1756

Valeri: Yeah. Just to make themselves feel better than the Danes are better than the rest of us. 1757

Eliza: Yeah. It's like showing that they are superior. 1758

Anja: But why? 1759

Evgeniya: But didn't the teacher help you get the job? (Til Valeri) 1760

Viktor: Only some teachers. There are some teachers... 1761

Anja: Have you thought about, that the Danish people might have some kind of experience from 1762

gymnasium or elementary school already teaching them there, how to write a paper that we find good in 1763

Denmark? That, that might be the case? That they get better grades? 1764

Viktor: No, (Eliza: No) talking about the oral exam and then the oral exam is conducted in Danish then... 1765

maybe they have a bit better. In many case with some teachers that is noticeable drop in grades in 1766

between the two groups. 1767

Anja: What do you think they wanna try and prove, these teachers? 1768

Viktor: I have no idea. 1769

(Pause) 1770

Roxi: Even I had one experience (Utydelig) ... single teacher can make Danes slightly different I mean... I 1771

remember this... like almost the last semester, we had this project about personal communication and we 1772

were like me and another Romanian friend and one Dane... one Danish... and she didn't... I mean yeah in 1773

the period... yeah she worked half way, but then she had some problems and then she... said she would do 1774

stuff and then she didn't and then we had to finish the work and all that. Teamwork... but then at the exam 1775

she... I think she got a subject she didn't know and she didn't know what to say and then she started crying 1776

and making scenes and we saw her going out crying and... but then she still passed. She still passed with 02 1777

(pause) yeah, but I don't know. I'm sure that if I... (utydelig). 1778

54

(Pause) 1779

Roxi: I have to mention another thing because you just mentioned about age. You know there are actually 1780

some courses they offer, like these six weeks self-tutoring courses with A-kasse and there are some really 1781

good... there are like, you know, you can learn about SAP or LEAN stuff... but all of the conditions is that 1782

you are filled... that you are 25 years old. (Kami: Yes, yes. That was very weird). 1783

Eliza: Can I ask another question, what I have heard and experienced, just conformation from you (Rettet 1784

mod Evgeniya). Is it true that many who got internships, they actually cannot do the job even after six 1785

months and they got... because of their personality, but... 1786

(Pause) 1787

Anja: When you graduate as a foreigner, what do you have to do to stay in Denmark? (Alle: Nothing) Isn't 1788

there a law saying that you can only be here for 6 months? (Alle: No) 1789

Kami: E.g. we need... in order to gain a resident-ship here, we either have to work or study. Otherwise, you 1790

can't just live here without doing anything. They are gonna kick you out at some point. 1791

Ventsi: How am I in Denmark? 1792

Kami: Because you are a member of an A-kasse. You are looking for work. This is the background. Like the 1793

basis of your residence permit to be extended. (Pause) but otherwise I don't know how you can live here. 1794

You have to marry a Dane or something. 1795

Eliza: Actually, the EU law says, and also the Danish law; six months if you can support yourself and you are 1796

looking for a job. Otherwise you have to go home. 1797