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Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba

PRASHNOTHARA VAHINI

bhagavan Sri satia sai baba

WeSmaritebakiTxva-pasuxebSi

(praSnoThara vahini)

Tbilisi

2015

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es wigni warmoadgens bhagavan Sri satia sai babasTan saubrebis Canawers moswavlis kiTxvebisa da Cveni epoqis avataris pasuxebis formiT. samyaros maswavlebeli ambobs adamianis cxovrebis mizanze, mis WeSmarit bunebaze, daniSnulebaze samyaroSi da RmerTis msaxurebaze. wigni saWiroebs dakvirvebiT da yuradRebiT kiTxvas da Rrma gaazrebas, radgan sulierebis urTules sakiTxebs Seexeba. teqstSi daculia satia sai babas mier gamoyenebuli sanskrituli sityvebi da terminebi.

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praSna niSnavs SekiTxvas. uThara niSnavs pasuxs, da vahini niSnavs nakads. es wigni Seicavs SekiTxvebs, rasac bhagavan satia sai babas usvamen, da mis pasuxebs. im amocanebs Soris, romelTa gadawyvetac bhagavanma Tavis Tavze aiRo Tavisi gansxeulebis ganmavlovaSi, ZiriTadad man daasaxela `kacobriobis saRvTo werilebis ganmarteba da gawmenda~. bhagavanisgan momdinare `vahinis~ seriis yoveli wigni exeba adamianis sulieri aRmavlobis ama Tu im aspeqts.

es erT-erTi adrindeli wignia, da masSi axsnilia religiis ZiriTadi warmodgenebi da mcnebebi, gansakuTrebiT is specifikuri sityvebi da gamosaxvebi, romelTa daniSnulebac maTi konkretizaciaa. winaT igi gamocemuli iyo rogorc danarTi `gita vahinisa~, wignisa, romelic amJamad maZieblebisTvis sakvanZos warmoadgens da am seriis yvela wignis mkiTxvelebs exmareba.

Zveli sibrZne, maradiuli gza (sanatana dharma), momdevno Taobebs im sityvebis daxmarebiT gadaeca, romlebic droTa ganmavlobaSi komentatorTa Soris winaaRmdegobebis gamo damaxinjda, gaufasurda, gamoifita da gaukuRmarTda. varna, aSrama, ioga, iajna, karma (oTxi wodeba, cxovrebis oTxi stadia, ioga, msxverplad Sewirva, moqmedeba) – es gagebebi dialeqtikebisa da sxvadasxva seqtebidan da skolebidan praqtikis gamtareblebis mier interpretirebul iqna uwesrigod da erTmaneTis sawinaaRmdegod. bhagavanma es siZneleebi mospo. misi sufTa siyvaruli da Tviniereba sitkboebiT avsebs ara marto yovel pasuxs, aramed yovel SekiTxvasac, radgan man Tavi SemkiTxvelis adgilas daayena da ganmarteba srulad da nayofierad gaakeTa.

n. kasturi

`sanatana saraThis~ redaqtori

praSanti nilaiami, 1984 w. 14 ianvari

Tavi 1

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sxeuli da indriebiSekiTxva. ratom amboben, rom adamianis sxeuli xuTi

elementisgan, panCabhutasgan Sedgeba?pasuxi. imitom, rom igi xuTi elementis produqtia. S. ra elementebia es? p. akaSa, vaiu, agni, jala, priThvi, rac Seesabameba eTers

(sivrces), haers, cecxls, wyals da miwas. S. saidan warmoiqmneba es elementebi? p. yoveli momdevno elementi iqmneba winamorbedidan. S. ra aris mizezi pirveli da, maSasadame, yvela xuTi

elementisa? p. brahmani, Seucvleli, mudmivi, safuZveli. S. rogoria adamianis sxeulsa da xuT elements Soris

urTierTdamokidebuleba? p. brahmanisgan warmoiqmna iaThna da mahaTi (Zalisxmeva

da kosmosi); maTgan – akaSa, akaSadan – vaiu, vaiudan – agni, agnidan – jalam, jalamidan – prithvi. adamianis sxeuli am xuTi elementis naerTis Sedegia.

S. ra formiT imyofeba sxeulSi es xuTi elementi?p. am xuTma elementma, Tavis mxriv, Camoayaliba

xuTwevriani naerTebi da sxeulis kombinacia Seadgina. S. pirvelia akaSa; ras warmoadgens is xuTi, radac igi iqca? p. jnaTha, manasi, budhi, ahamkara, panCaka (Secnobis

subieqti, goneba, inteleqti, piradi `me~-s cnobiereba, Sinagani grZnobebi).

S. ra saxiT mJRavndeba isini sxeulSi? p. isini mJRavndeba rogorc `Sinagani grZnobebi~. S. rogoria Semdegi elementis, vaius, xuTi forma? p. samana, viana, udana, prana, apana – xuTi sasicocxlo

energia.1 S. ra hqvia maT sxeulSi? p. panCa prana, xuTi vitaluri (sasicocxlo) energia.S. agni, cecxlis elementi?

1 samana-vaiiu – mokrebilia WipSi, misi funqciaa saWmlis gadamuSaveba da misi gavrceleba mTel sxeulSi; viana-vaiiu mTel sxeuls gamsWvalavs da Sexebis SegrZnebas iZleva; udana-vaiiu mokrebilia yelSi, misi funqciaa gonebasTan kavSiris damyareba da Sewyveta mRviZarobisa da Rrma Zilis dros; prana-vaiiu mokrebilia gulSi, energiis aRmavali deni, misi funqciaa filtvebis moZraoba CasunTqvisa da amosunTqvis dros; apana-vaiiu energiis daRmavali denia, mokrebilia Wipis qvemoT, misi funqciaa sxeulidan narCenebis gamoyofa.

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p. es elementi gaxda grZnobaTa elementebi: yuri, kani, Tvali, ena, cxviri.

S. da ra hqvia maT? p. jnianendriebi, Secnobis organoebi. S. miTxari, ra aris jalapanCaka, xuTi forma, radac wylis

elementi iqca? p. Sabda, sparSa, rupa, rasa, gandha – xma, Sexeba, forma,

gemo, suni.S. aqvT Tu ara maT kidev raime dasaxeleba?p. maT agreTve hqvia panCa-tanmatra – stiqiis xuTi faqizi

elementi.S. rCeba xuTidan bolo – miwis elementi. rogor mJRavndeba igi

sxeulSi?p. rogorc metyvelebis organoebi, xelebi, fexebi, genitaliebi da

gamoyofis organoebi. S. da maT hqvia...p. karmendriebi, moqmedebis organoebi. S. imis nacvlad, rom ganixilebodes adamianis sxeuli,

Sedgenili ai aseTi saxiT xuTi elementisgan, rogorc erTaderTi, vedantistebi amboben, rom arsebobs mravali sxeuli. marTalia Tu ara es? p. `mravali~ ki ara, samia. zogierTebi amboben, rom oTxia.

S. ras warmoadgens isini? mesame da meoTxe? ra hqvia maT?

p. sThula deha (uxeSi sxeuli); suqSma deha (faqizi sxeuli) da karana deha (mizezobrivi sxeuli). kidev erTi, romelsac meoTxed Tvlian, - maha karana deha (zemizezobrivi sxeuli).

S. Tu ufro dawvrilebiT vilaparakebT, ra igulisxmeba sThula dehas, uxeSi sxeulis ukan?

p. igi niSnavs sxeuls, romelic Sedgeba 25 elementaruli Semadgeneli nawilisagan, romlebic me ukve davasaxele.

S. ras warmoadgens suqSma deha, faqizi sxeuli? p. xuTi jnianendria, xuTi tanmatra, xuTi prana, manasi da

budhi – es Cvidmeti elementi erTiandeba da faqiz sxeuls ayalibebs.

S. mas mxolod suqSma deha hqvia Tu kidev sxva dasaxelebebi aqvs?

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p. ratomac ara? ra Tqma unda aqvs. igi agreTve cnobilia rogorc taijasa, manaTobeli sxeuli.

S. da mas SeuZlia gancalkevdes, imitom rom sxva mdgomareobasTanaa dakavSirebuli?

p. diax.S. da ra hqvia am mdgomareobas? p. Zilis mdgomareoba.S. Sen ginda Tqva, rom uxeS sxeuls ara aqvs mdgomareoba,

romelic am sxeulTanaa dakavSirebuli?p. ra Tqma unda ara, mas aqvs aseTi mdgomareoba. S. damisaxele es. p. es aris mRviZarobis mdgomareoba, jagrati. S. mizezobrivi sxeuli, karana deha?p. aq aris Cita, anu cnobiereba, romelic dakavSirebulia

Secnobis subieqtTan, Semcnob principTan, janaThasTan. S. ra hqvia mas?p. prajna.S. mdgomareobas?p. suSupTi, Rrma Zili.S. momiTxre imis Sesaxebac, ra igulisxmeba meoTxe,

zemizezobriv sxeulSi? p. sufTa cnobiereba, romelis ar aris dakavSirebuli arc erT

tatvasTan, anu elementarul Semadgenel nawilTan, maradiuli mowme, gasxivosnebuli `me~. masze laparakoben rogorc maha karana dehas Sesaxeb.

S. masac aqvs dasaxeleba, rogorc danarCens? p. mas hqvia hiraniagarbha1.S. mdgomareoba?p. mas ar gaaCnia mdgomareoba, igi cnobierebis yvela

mdgomareobaze maRlaa, da mas aRweren rogorc a-qSara puruSas2.

S. davubrundeT uxeS sxeuls. rogoria specifikuri gamovlinebebi, xuT elements rom axasiaTebs, romlebic sxeulis Camosayalibebad SeerTdnen?

p. miwisgan Seiqmna: Zvali, kani, xorci, ZarRvebi, Tma. S. wylisgan, jalasgan?p. sisxli, Sardi, nerwyvi, lorwo, tvini.

1 hiraniagarbha - `oqros kvercxi~, `oqros Canasaxi~, RmerTis pirveli gamJRavneba. 2 a-qSara puruSa – mouSleli, srulyofili umaRlesi arseba.

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S. cecxlisgan?p. mrisxaneba, wyurvili, Zili, sizarmace, megobroba.S. vaius gamJRavneba? p. moRvaweoba, moZraoba, siCqare, sircxvili, SiSi.S. albaT element akaSasac aqvs unari rogorRac gamJRavndes

sxeulSi?Pp. diax, ra Tqma unda: mrisxanebis, Jinis, sixarbis, siamayisa

da Suris gziT.S. adamiani didad itanjeba, xom asea? am tanjvebis mizezi

misi sxeulis elementebia? p. rogorc Cans, amaSi eWvi ar gepareba. adamianis tanjvebis

mizezi es uxeSi Tvisebebia. Tumca tanjvebi arc ise bevria, rogorc SeiZleba mogveCvenos. isini oTxi saxisaa da hqviaT vasanebi1.

S. ras warmoadgens es oTxi vasana? p. es aris sxeuli, goneba, simdidre da seqsi; Tumca sxvebic

aris, isini umTavresad amaTzea dafuZnebuli. S. adamiani brmaa Tavis siamayeSi. ra egoizmi ubiZgebs mas

amisken? egoizmis ramdeni nairsaxeoba arsebobs?p. arsebobs oTxi saxe: Camomavlobis siamaye, simdidris

siamaye, axalgazrdobis siamaye da swavlulobis siamaye. Tumca sxva saxeebic arsebobs, maTi amaTTan dayvana SeiZleba.

Tavi 2

ToTxmeti lokaS. gamigonia, rom yvela loka (plani, `samyaro~) adamianis

sxeulSi imyofeba! zogierTi gamocdili da Sastrebis (werilebis) mcodne adamiani ambobda amas; marTla asea? ra lokebia es da sad imyofeba? 1 vasanebi – Tandayolili, Rrmad fesvgamjdari midrekilebebi da impulsebi, romlebzedac adamiania mibmuli.

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p. diax. es aris: bhur-loka – terfebSi, bhuva-loka – genitaliebSi, svar-loka – WipSi, mahar-loka – gulSi, jana-loka – xaxaSi, tapa-loka – warbebs Soris da satia-loka – Txemze2. maT hqvia umaRlesi lokebi, da adamianis sxeulSi imyofeba. aris aseve qveda lokebi.

S. ra lokebia es? sad imyofeba?p. atala – fexisgulebSi, vitala – frCxilebSi, sutalam – quslebSi,

talatala – welSi, rasatala – muxlebSi, mahatala – barZayebSi da patala – anusSi.

S. Tu yvela loka sxeulSia – xuTi elementi da maTi mdgenlebi, - maSin ra miekuTvneba `sapta samudras~ - Svid legendarul zRvas? isinic sxeulSi an gonebaSia?

p. Tu sxeuli im adgils warmoadgens, sadac yvela lokaa Tavmoyrili, maSin rogor SeuZlia Svid zRvas damoukideblad iarsebos? isinic `sxeulSia~. lavana, anu mlaSe zRva (Sardi); kane - `wvnis~ (ofli) zRva; sura, anu Rvinis (grZnobis) zRva; sarpi, anu ghis (erbos) zRva, - sperma; dadhi, anu karaqis zRva, - lorwo; rZis zRva (saliva) – nerwyvi; sufTa wylis zRva – cremli.

S. agnis ramdenime saxeze ambobdi; ra aris da ra hqvia maT?

p. maT hqvia panCagni, radgan isini xuTia: kala-agni, drois cecxli; kSudha-agni, SimSilis cecxli; siTha-agni, sicivis cecxli; kopa-agni, mrisxanebis cecxli; jniana-agni, codnis cecxli.

S. sad imyofebian? p. terfebSi, WipSi, kuWSi, TvalebSi da gulSi.S. garda amisa, rogorc Cans, arsebobs nadas, anu xmis

sxvadasxva saxe. viRacasgan gamigonia es. p. diax.S. isinic sxeulSia? ramdenia da ra hqvia maT? p. isini aTia, yvela uxeS sxeulSi imyofeba. laladigoSa,

berinada, Canenada, mrudanganada, gantanada, kalanada, kinkininada, venunada, bhramarnada da bolo, pranavanada, - ai aseTia xmaTa mravalsaxeoba.

2 es lokebi Seesabameba Cakrebs (energetikul centrebs adamianis sxeulSi) da cnobierebis sxvadasxva dones, maTi Sesabamisisas: materialuri plani (bhur), vibracia (bhuvar), gamosxiveba (suvar), gulis centri (mahar), Seqmna (jana), gacnobiereba (tapa), gaTavisufleba (satia).

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S. Tu mTeli qmnileba xuTi elementis am SeerTebaSia Tavmoyrili, anu sxeulSi, maSin ra aris anda-anda, pinda-anda da brahma-anda?

p. anda-anda mTeli qmnilebaa, romelic evolucias da invalucias eqvemdebareba; moZravi da uZravi buneba, rogorc Cveulebrivad uwodeben. pinda-anda dasaxelebaa mTeli am orobiTobis Sinagani principisa – damkvirveblisa da dasakvirvebelis, mkeTeblis da saqmis da a.S. swored orobiToba warmoadgens gadabadebis (janmas) mizezs karmis Tanaxmad. brahma-anda (`samyaros kvercxi~) nakrebia mahabhutebisa, anu xuTi elementis Sinagani Zalebisa; atma (umaRlesi suli) dakavSirebulia akaSasTan, jivatma (individualuri suli) – vaiusTan, pratiagatma (Sinagani `me~, anu sxeulis cnobierebiT ganpirobebuli atma) warmoiqmneba agnidan, Caitania-brahma (brahmas cnobiereba) dakavSirebulia wylis elementTan, paramatma (samyaros `me~) dakavSirebulia dharanasTan (miwasTan) – es yvelaferi ganekuTvneba brahma-andas gagebas. swored es Zala aiZulebs elementebs, rom imoqmedon; maT zemoT imyofeba aviaqta brahmani, miuwvdomeli absoluti.

S. svami! mTlad naTlad ver gamigia, ras warmoadgens mTlianad sagani. Tu SeiZleba, amixseni es raime ubralo magaliTze.

p. kargi. anda-anda Tvalis Savi badisebri garsia, panda-anda – Sida wre masSi; brahma-anda sinaTlea, romelic masSi aRwevs. sinaTlis wyaro brahmania.

Tavi 3

oTxi aSramaS. romel dharmas jobia mivyveT kosmosSi, romelic adamianis

sxeulSi imyofeba? romeli aSramaa1 yvelaze ufro Sesaferisi am dharmisTvis? sul ramdeni aSramaa?

p. sul aris oTxi aSrama. Tu maT Sesaxeb ici, TviTon SegiZlia gadawyvito, Seni miRwevebis, warmatebebisa da midrekilebebis 1 aSrama – vedebis Tanaxmad, adamianis cxovrebis oTxi stadiidan erT-erTi: moswavleoba, ojaxuri cxovreba, ganmartoeba da mzera, gandegiloba.

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mixedviT, romeli aSrama unda amoirCio. brahmaCaria, grihasTha, vanaprasTha da saniasa – ai oTxi aSrama.

S. adamianebi sxvadasxvagvarad xsnian sityva brahmaCarias da safexurs, romelsac es sityva aRniSnavs. me minda, rom am safexuris namdvili simSveniere amixsna.

p. Zalian kargi. Tvlian, rom yvelas, vinc grihasTha ver gaxda, SeiZleba brahmaCaria ewodos. es didi Secdomaa. mxolod is adamianebi arian Rirsni brahmaCariad iwodebodnen, romelTa gonebac amqveyniuri iluziebiT ar aris dakavebuli, vinc mudam RmerTze fiqrobs, vinc Worebs ar usmens da ar avrcelebs, vinc cdilobs mxolod kargi dainaxos, visac sixaruli ar swyuria da vinc ubedurobis dros mSvidia da gonebas, inteleqts da TviTSemecnebas karg mdgomareobaSi amyofebs, vinc mudam umzers brahmatatvas (RvTaebriv arss).

S. ras niSnavs grihasTha? p. Tu adamiani col-SvilTan cxovrobs, es jer kidev ar niSnavs,

rom is grihasTha aSramaSi gamyarda, rogorc amas adamianTa umravlesoba fiqrobs. adamianma ar unda uaryos valdebulebebi, romlebic misi kastisa da mdgomareobis mixedviT aqvs mas dawesebuli, da erTnairi TavazianobiT unda epyrobodes yvelas – naTesavebsac da yvela danarCensac. man unda icodes ufrosebis uflebebi da umcrosebis valdebulebebi, aRvsili unda iyos simpaTiiT da daxmarebis surviliT; sikeTiTa da siyvaruliT unda zrunavdes imaTze, vinc maszea damokidebuli; wuTisofelTan yoveli axali Sejaxeba mas sibrZnes unda matebdes, unda swavlobdes Sastrebs, dharmis (zneobrivi kanonis) Sesrulebis dros punqtualuri iyos da adharmas gaurbodes; pasuxismgeblobis grZnobiT unda icavdes da uzrunvelyofdes col-Svils, unda axSobdes egoizmis rva saxes, romelsac warmoSobs siamaye Tavisi modgmis, simdidris, xasiaTis, silamazis, axalgazrdobis, swavlulobis, samSoblosa da asketizmSi warmatebebis gamoc ki.

is, vinc gaacnobierebs oTx mizans, romlebsac warmoadgens dharma, arTha, kama da mokSa1; vinc materialuri keTildReobiT ar amayobs, romelic mas SeiZleba sakmaod hqondes; vinc dRis raRac nawils sxvaTa msaxurebas uTmobs; vinc sxvis sakuTrebaze

1 vedebis Tanaxmad, adamianis cxovrebis oTxi mizani – dharma (zneobrivi da sxva kanonebis dacva, romlebic mocemuli aSramisTvisaa dadgenili); arTha – keTildReobis daufleba swori gziT; kama – marTlqmediTi survilebis dakmayofileba; mokSa – gaTavisuflebis miRweva dabadebaTa da sikvdilTa wrisagan.

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ar aris damokidebuli; vinc Tavis cols endoba da colisganac igives grZnobs, vinc sxvas ugebs da mTlianad endoba – igi im gzaze dgas, romelsac hqvia grihasTha aSrama.

S. ras niSnavs vanaprasTha? p. am stadiaze adamiani grZnobs, rom mTeli orobiToba

safuZvlis gareSea da yalbia. igi uars ambobs yvela survilze, wuTisofelze mibmulobis kvalze; mas ar moswons xalxmraval adgilebSi cxovreba; mantras galobs da gamarjveba swyuria, da amgvarad asketur cxovrebas eweva, mxolod umi, nedli sakvebiT ikvebeba, ZiriTadad xiliT da foTlebiT, zomierad, cxovrobs wmindanTa da mahariSebis (didi brZenebis) sazogadoebaSi, ismens maTs darigebebs da mtkiced dgeba RmerTis Secnobis gzaze. vanaprasTham colisgan nebarTva unda miiRos, roca martoobaSi midis, rom sadhanas (sulier gzas) miuZRvnas cxovreba, aseve valdebulia saWiro saxiT izrunos Svilebze. Tu cols unda rom qmars Tan axldes, qmarma igi Tan unda waiyolos. magram amieridan maT unda icxovron ara rogorc col-qmarma, aramed rogorc da-Zmam. am axal urTierTdamokidebulebis misaRwevad igi SeiZleba saxlSi darCes, magram vanaprasThas cxovreba unda gaswios. magram, meore mxriv, Tu winandeli cxovreba grZeldeba, es vanaprasThas ar Seesabameba. vanaprasTha iq ar unda cxovrobdes, sadac daojaxebuli xalxi cxovrobs. igi im aRTqmebs unda icavdes, romlebic wlis yoveli droisTvis aris dawesebuli. gabedulad unda xvdebodes wvimas, mzes da sicives wlis nebismier dros. fxizlad unda iyos, rom meryevma gonebam grZnobiTi siamovnebebisken ar gaitacos. siamovnebas unda eZebdes da poulobdes mxolod RmerTze fiqrsa da RvTis didebis gavrcelebaSi.

S. ras niSnavs saniasa?p. saniasa yvela grZnobiT an materialur siamovnebaTa

survilebs aRemateba. saniasasTvis RmerTze fiqri isTive aucileblobas warmoadgens, rogorsac sunTqva; RmerTze fiqrs saWiroebs gamudmebiT, igi warmoadgens cxovrebisagan gandgomis saSualebas, rogorc aseTis, rogorc mas unda, rom es fiqri erTaderTi sixaruli iyos mis cxovrebaSi. man icis, rom simdidre da didgvarovneba, survili da mibmuloba warmavalia da dacemisa da dasrulebisTvis aris ganwiruli. igi uaryofs gare gansxvavebebs, kastasa da samskarebsac (sasicocxlo ciklis tradiciebs, adaTebs)

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ki, romlebic upanaianebis1 msgavsia, igi atarebs maTxovris Jangmiwis feris samosels; ar cxovrobs xalxmraval adgilebSi; igi cxovrobs imisgan damoukideblad, ra raodenobis sakvebs iRebs, ar gaurbis im adgils, sadac sakvebs ver iRebs; ar Wams orjer erT adgilas da ar sZinavs zedized ori Rame erT adgilas; igi Wamisa da Zilis cdunebaze imarjvebs; TiTqmis ar aqcevs yuradRebas wlis droTa simkacres; igi mudam bednieri da moxarulia RmerTis sazogadoebaSi, romliskenac dhianas (meditaciis) saSualebiT aris mowodebuli.

S. amJamad mravali adamiania narinjisfer samoselSi, romelic imaze miuTiTebs, rom isini saniasebs warmoadgenen. yvela icavs Tu ara im disciplinas, romelic Sen axlaxans axsene?

p. ra Tqma unda, arseboben adamianebi, romlebic am disciplinas icaven. magram ar SeiZleba iTqvas, rom yvela aseTia.

S. arian adamianebi romlebmac, arian ra saniasebi, aSramebi (sulieri savaneebi) daafuZnes, magram ewevian wuTisoflis saqmeebs, wuTisoflis miRwevebs da wuTisoflis didebas da Zalauflebas aRweven. ras ityvi maT Sesaxeb?

p. aSramis tipis organizaciebi, romlebic Sen axsene, did dabrkolebas warmoadgens WeSmariti saniasasTvis imisagan ganTavisuflebis gzaze, rac gonebas aRelvebs. imisTvis, vinc uari unda Tqvas raimes miRwevis mcdelobaze, aSramaSi warmatebis miRwevisTvis Zalisxmeva mxolod dabrkolebaa. da ar aris saWiro geubnebode, ra SeiZleba davarqvaT aseT saniasebs. SemiZlia mxolod vTqva, rom isini am saxels (saniasas) ar imsaxureben.

S. svami, rogor SeiZleba zRudavdes im aSramebis zrda, romlebic Cvennair adamianebs exmarebian imaSi, rom gaigon, ras niSnavs gaTavisufleba? da rogor unda miaRwion warmatebas aSramebma fulis gareSe? vfiqrob, rom Rirs miReba daxmarebisa, romelsac nebayoflobiT gTavazoben.

p. Cemo megobaro! Tu saketi gatexilia da yvelaze ufro Rirebuli gatanilia anda Tu kedlis naxvretidan gadian, maSin es qurdobaa; Tu dRisiT-mzisiT adamiani gaiZulebs Seni faseuloba mas gauyo, esec qurdobaa. Tu saniasim simdidres daadga Tvali, rogorc ar unda xsnides igi amas, es misi sulieri progresisTvis sazianoa. msgavsi saxis yvela valdebuleba man unda daakisros 1 upanaianam – sulieri maswavleblis mier gaiatri mantrasTan ziarebisa da wminda zonris Sebmis ceremonia biWunebisTvis brahmanebis varnadan (8 wlamde), qSatriebisTvis (11 weli) da vaiSiebisTvis (12 weli).

13

Tayvanismcemels, romelic ndobas imsaxurebs, da igi iyos mxolod aradainteresebuli mowme. misi valdebuleba imaSi mdgomareobs, rom imaT, vinc Tanadgomas (aSraiias) eZebs, garantirebuli hqondeT sulieri daxmareba, da ara daxmareba aSramas, rom amaRldes da warmatebas miaRwios. cecxli survilisa aSrama gazardos egoizmis kocons aRvivebs da yvela saqeburs wvavs saniasSi, gansakuTrebiT mis atmanandas (RvTaebriv netarebas). cecxli moSlis ara mxolod saniasas, aramed agreTve imaTac, vinc mas miendo. grZnobebi `me~ da `Cemi~ naperwklebia, romlebic xanZars iwvevs. adamiani im moZRvrebs unda mihyvebodes, romlebic am grZnobebisgan arian Tavisufalni. magram erTxelac aSrama pirvel adgilze dadgeba, da e.w. `moZRvars~ mouwevs adamianebs miebas! es sxvanairad unda xdebodes. igi ar unda iyos damokidebuli wuTisofelze, igi yvela mibmulobisagan Tavisufali unda iyos. es saniasis niSania.

Tavi 4

mokSa da karmaS. amboben, arian kidev avadhutebi1. vis uwodeben ase? ra

Tvisebebi aqvT maT? p. vanaprasThebisa da saniasebis msgavsad, isini

mibmulobebisa da siZulvilisgan unda gaTavisufldnen; isini yuradRebas ar aqceven imas, rac maT garemocvaSia, iqneba es tye Tu qalaqi, es maT odnavac ki ar aRelvebs. aravisTan urTierToben. maTTvis gansxvaveba ar arsebobs warsuls, awmyosa da momavals Soris. isini eklebsa da qvebze dadian, Cumad, TavisTvis momRimarni, mudam moxarulni, mudam fxizelni, ar eZeben komforts da TavSesafars, ar eZeben adgils Zilisa da sakvebis miRebisTvis, imitom rom ananda warmoadgens maTs aharas (sakvebs). axlac ki arseboben avadhutebi himalaebSi, Cum gamoqvabulebSi, Tavis Sinagan atmanandaSi CaZirulni. yvelas ar SeuZlia maTi danaxva. mxolod bednier SemTxvevas SeuZlia daganaxoT avadhuta. 1 avadhutebi – wmindani gandegilebi, romlebmac gaTavisuflebas miaRwies, da Tavisi Sinagani ZaliT kacobriobaze zegavlenas axdenen.

14

Tumca mravali adamiani arsebobs, romelsac avadhutas wodebaze pretenzia aqvs, da Tavis Tavs ase uwodebs. magram WeSmariti avadhutebi adamianebs ar eZeben da xalxis winaSe ar Cndebian. Tu Tavis gzas ver malaven da xalxSi Cndebian, maSin isini uxmod sxltebian, rom Tavis Tavze yuradReba ar miipyron. rodesac `avadhutas~ Sexvdebi, romelic sazogadoebaSi Tavisuflad trialebs da adamianTa saqmeebSi ereva, icode, rom es aris iamadhuta, urCxuli.

S. ramden xans rCeba adamiani SeboWili deha-karmiT, valdebulebebiT, romlebic sxeuls Seexeba?

p. sanam ar aris napovni jivatma (sxeulSi mobinadre atma). roca is gaxsnili da gacnobierebulia, amis aucilebloba aRar aris.

S. ramden xans acnobierebs adamiani jivatmas? p. sanam mdinare zRvaSi miedineba. sanam jivas dineba

iswrafis wyarosken, risganac igi warmoiSva, paramatmas zRvisken.

S. ra aris mokSa?p. mokSa gaTavisuflebaa yovelive imisgan, rac boWavs. es

aris miRweva maradcocxali, marad ucvleli, maradsufTa atma-tatvasi; marad cvalebadi, maradyalbi, arawminda deha-tatvas mocileba.

S. magram yovel adamians ar SeuZlia aseTs miaRwios, xom asea, svami?

p. ratom ggonia ase? vinc aseT gzas daadgeba, SeuZlia amas miaRwios; vinc Zalisxmevas gamoiCens, aRwevs amas. yovel avadmyofs aqvs ufleba wamalze, da ver ityvi, rom maT Soris zogierTebs aqvT amis ufleba. Tumca, Tu wamali Zviria, mxolod isini ikurnebian, visac misi yidva SeuZlia. Znelia RvTis wyalobis miReba, da didi fasis gadaxda mogiwevs. gadaixade, gamoimuSave igi sadhanas meSveobiT – ai Cemi rCeva, da RvTis wyalobiT xsnili iqnebi am bhavarogasgan (wuTisofelze mibmulobis avadmyofobisgan).

S. ufro metad vin saWiroebs am sadhanas? p. is, visac swyuria xsnili iyos `dabadebisa da sikvdilis~

wyaldidobisagan, romelic axla mas tboravs. S. baba! ra aris imis mizezi, rom adamiani sxeulSi ibadeba?p. karmis gavlena. S. karmis ramdeni nairsaxeoba arasebobs?

15

p. sami. cudi, kargi da Sereuli; zogierTebi meoTxe saxesac amateben, jnianas (brZenis) karmas, romelic arc kargia, arc cudi.

S. ra aris cudi karma?p. mas hqvia duS-karma. yvela moqmedeba, ganxorcielebuli

RvTis SiSis gareSe an codvaSi gadavardnis gamo; yvela moqmedeba, Sesrulebuli eqvsi mtris gavleniT, romlebsac hqviaT: kama, krodha, lobha, moda da matsaria (survili, siZulvili, sixarbe, mibmuloba, siamaye da Suri), yvela moqmedeba, romlis drosac adamiani cxovels emsgavseba, da am dros ar Cans, rom adamians aqvs viveka (gonivruloba), viCaqSana (keTilgoniereba) da vairagia (gandgomileba), da mas ar gaaCnia daia, dharma, satia, Santi da prema (TanagrZnoba, marTlqmedeba, simarTle, simSvide da siyvaruli) – es aris duS-karma (cudi saqmeebi).

S. sat-karma (kargi saqmeebi)?p. yvela moqmedeba, Sesrulebuli RvTis SiSiT da codvis SiSiT;

yvela moqmedeba, Sesrulebuli satias, dharmis, Santis da premas Sesabamisad, - es yvelaferi aris sat-karma.

S. romel karmas hqvia miSra-karma, Sereuli? p. es saintereso xvedria. marTalia, moqmedebebi kargia,

erTi SexedviT isini RvTis SiSiT da codvis SiSiTaa nakarnaxevi, magram miuxedavad amisa, isini sruliad sapirispiro gulis wadils warmoaCenen. adamianebi xsnian TavSesafrebs da centrebs, sadac wyals anawileben, magaliTad, magram momsaxure personals regularulad da kargad ar uxdian. maTi mizani mxolod da mxolod saxelis moxveWaa. mowyalebis saxiT isini sawylebs TavisTvis arasaWiro nivTebsa da usargeblo tansacmels aZleven. rasac ar unda akeTebdnen, maTi mizani imaSi mdgomareobs, rom saxeli gaiTqvan.

S. Sen aseve jniana-karmaze ambobdi, svami. p. diax. jniana-karma yvela im moqmedebas hqvia, romelic

dakavSirebulia im gzis Sesaswavlad, romelic exmareba wuTisoflis orobiTobisa da macduneblobis borkilebs gaeqces da saRvTo werilebSi, Zvel maswavlebelTa swavlebebSia miTiTebuli; moqmedebas, romelic aviTarebs rwmenas RirebulebaSi satia, dharma, Santi da prema; yvela im moqmedebas, romelic pirovnebas samyaros absolutSi CaZiravs.

16

Tavi 5

vidia da bhaqTiS. svami, gamigonia, adamianebi xSirad xmaroben sityvas

amanaska1. ra aris misi mniSvneloba? p. es aris mdgomareoba, rodesac mTeli qmnileba

cnobierdeba TiTqos Sinagani mayureblis, mowmis mier danaxuli, da es qmnileba qreba, rogorc nisli ganTiadisas. am safexurs hqvia amanaska.

S. codnas raRa emarTeba?p. isic ki qreba! S. sad imyofeba es mowme, romelzedac Sen ambob, Zilis

mdgomareobaSi?p. is jivaSi imyofeba; igi ara mxolod akvirdeba, aramed aseve

qmnis yvelafers, rasac ki xedavs. S. Rrma Zilis dros?p. igi imyofeba srul realobaSi, romelsac modifikacia dakarguli

aqvs. S. meoTxe stadiaSi (turiiaSi), imaSi, rac Rrma Zils moyveba?p. igi efloba iSvara-sathanaSi, ucvlel arsebaSi. S. ras niSnavs termini paramarTha?p. ufro zustad, parama arTha, - imas, rac ufro zemoT

imyofeba da am, sxeuliTa da grZnobebiT SezRudul, samyaros aRemateba.

S. aseve amboben parama-padaze. ra aris es?p. es niSnavs nama-rupas, anu saxeli-formis, aseve kriia-

rupas (moqmedebis formis) armqones. S. svami! warmoadgens Tu ara RmerTi transcendenturs

samyaros mimarT, Tu is imanenturia? p. igi samyaros avsebs kidec (anu imanenturia), da mis

gareTac imyofeba (transcendenturia), radgan ar arsebobs araferi RmerTis gareT, yvelaferi mis SigniTaa; yvela saxeli mas ekuTvnis, ar aris saxeli, ucxo rom iyos misTvis. 1 amanaska – pird. `gonebis ararseboba~, anu moqmedebis SeCereba gonebisa, romelic gvaiZulebs CavTvaloT, rom gare samyaro realurad arsebobs Cvengan damoukideblad.

17

S. ra SeiZleba vuwodoT umaRles RmerTs, romelic samyaros avsebs?

p. mas SeiZleba sxvadasxva saxeli davarqvaT: paramapada (usazRvro sivrce), paramarTha (umaRlesi WeSmariteba), a-Sarira (araxorcieli), paripurna (yvelaze sruli sisavse), a-vang-manogoCaram (is, vinc ar aris sityvis da azris xelqveiTi). mas mravali saxeli aqvs.

S. warmoadgens Tu ara es sat-i, es arseba, uZveless Tu igi Tanamedrovea – sanatanaa Tu nuThana?

p. ra Tqma unda, igi sanatanaa, da ara nuThana. S. ra aris saboloo puruSarTha (adamianis mizani)?p. ra Tqma unda, es aris mokSa. S. rodesac vidiaze (codnaze) laparakoben, svami, rogorc me

gamigonia, oTx vidias axseneben. ra vidiebia es? p. diax, arsebobs anviqSaki, Thraie, varTha da dandaniThi. S. es dasaxelebebi CemTvis siaxlea. ras niSnavs anviqSaki? p. es aris vidia, romlis daxmarebiTac adamians unari aqvs

atma anatmasgan ganasxvaos.S. Thraie? p. es aris vidia, romlis daxmarebiTac adamians SeuZlia

Sesabamisi ritualebisa da moqmedebebis Sesrulebis Semdeg svargas, anu zecas miaRwios.

S. ras aswavlis varTha?p. miwaTmoqmedebas da sxva sasargeblo xelobebs.S. ras niSnavs dandaniThi? p. wesebsa da rCeva-darigebebs cxovrebasa da qcevebze

sazogadoebaSi; es codna gansakuTrebiT mniSvnelovania fulisa da sakvebis miRebisa da moxmarebis dros.

S. codnis am saxeebidan romeli aiZulebs adamians dabadebaTa wreSi Caeflos?

p. yvela, garda pirvelisa, anviqSakisa. S. gonebis damorCileba sulieri gamarjvebisTvis mnivnelovnad

iTvleba. ra zneobrioba unda ganvaviTaroT imisaTvis rom goneba sibilwisgan gavwmindoT?

p. arsebobs oTxi mTavari zneobrioba: maitri, karuna, mudiTha da upeqSa.

S. unda gTxovo, svami, rom ganmimarto es.

18

p. TvinierebTan da keTilebTan megobroba, RmerTis saxelisa da formis siyvaruli – ai ra Sedis maitriSi; karuna aris gulmowyaleba dabeCavebulTa mimarT.

S. romel zneobriobas hqvia mudiTha? p. mudiTha aris sixaruli, romelsac adamiani grZnobs maSin,

roca xvdeba gulmowyale adamianebs, imaT, vinc sxvebs msaxurebs da ubedurebs exmreba.

S. upeqSa? p. miukerZoebloba; rodesac adamiani

arawinaswaraRebulobiT epyroba borot adamianebs, rodesac isini arc uyvars da arc sZuls.

S. oTxi zneobriobis msgavsad kidev amboben bhaqTis (RmerTis erTgulebis) oTx saxeobaze. ras warmoadgens isini, svami?

p. bhaqTebis tipebi, Cemo kargo, SeiZleba oTx kategorias mivakuTvnoT: arTha, arTharThi, jijniasu, jniani. arTha aris adamiani, romelsac ubedurebebi tanjavs, da igi RmerTs SesTxovs maTgan daicvas.

S. vis uwodeben arTharTis? p. imas, vinc eZebs arThas, anu simdidres an mistikur Zalas

da RmerTs Tayvans scems da loculobs, rom es sikeTeebi miiRos. S. Sen jijniasuze ambobdi. vis uwodeben ase?p. imas, vinc ganTavisuflebas eZebs mudam da Zalian, imas,

vinc absolutis ZebniT aris dakavebuli.S. jniani?p. es aris is, vinc gaurbis ormag cnobierebas, dvanva bhavas;

vinc icis samyaros ZiriTad WeSmaritebasTan Tavisi igiveobis Sesaxeb.

S. damisaxele imaTi saxelebi, vinc bhaqTis am saxes mihyva da didebas miaRwia, svami.

p. mravali saxeli arsebobs. arTha-bhaqTebs Soris SemiZlia davasaxelo Semdegi saxelebi: draupadi, prahlada, sakubai; arThaarThebs Soris – dhruva, arjuna da sxv.; jijniasuTa Soris – udhava, tadha; jnianebs Soris – Suka, sanaka da sxv.

19

Tavi 6

dabrkolebebi gaTavisuflebis gzaze

S. isinic ki, vinc sulieri winsvlis gzaze (romlis saboloo mizanic mokSaa) warmatebas aRwevs, mgonia, rom did winaaRmdegobebs awydebian, svami.

p. diax, winandel, axlandel da momaval winaaRmdegobebs. S. ras warmodgens isini? ra aris winaaRmdegobebi

warsulidan?p. warsulis gaxsenebebi da warulis gavlena adamianze. S. ras warmoadgens winaaRmdegobebi awmyoSi?p. isini moqmedeben oTxi mimarTulebiT. viSaia-aSaqTi

(rodesac adamiani met yuradRebas aqcevs saswavlo procesis Taviseburebebs, da ara swavlis survils); prajnamandiam (gonebis sizarmace, rac adamians saSualebas ar aZlevs yurad iRos Zvel adamianTa da brZenTa sityvebi; kuTharka (pirquSoba) da vipariaduragraha (adamiani Tvlis, rom Tavis mdgomareobas sworad afasebs, rac Tavis Tavze gadaWarbebul warmodgenas badebs).

S. ra bunebisaa winaaRmdegobebi, romlebsac momavalSi aqvT fesvebi gadgmuli?

p. sanam Sen ubedurebebs elodebi da maTze fiqrob manamde, sanam isini moxdeba, momavali winaaRmdegobebs qmnis.

S. gamigonia, adamianebi rogor ambobdnen arsebebis oTx saxeze; CemTvis isini arc Tu ise naTelia.

p. andaja, svedaja, udbija, jaraiuja. S. ra aris am sityvebis mniSvneloba? p. andaja niSnavs kvercxidan dabadebuls; svedaja – oflidan

Sobils; udbija – miwidan Sobils; da jaraiuja – ZuZumwovars. frinvelebi pirveli jgufis kargi magaliTia; tilebi da a.S. – meorsa; WianWvelebi, mcenareebi da xeebi – mesamisa; adamianebi, msxvili rqosani saqoneli da a.S. – meoTxisa.

S. kargi, svami! arsebobs Tu ara gansakuTrebuli saxe imaT Soris, visac RmerTi swams da uyvars igi?

p. ra Tqma unda; maT Soris aseve oTxi saxea.

20

S. ra hqvia maT?p. dvija, muni, alpabudhi da vidiThatmi: orjerSobilni1,

asketebi, aragonierni da atmas Semcnobni. S. ase ratom uwodeben maT? ra aris TiToeuli saxis specifikuri

Tavisebureba? p. orjerSobilni RmerTs Seicnoben, rogorc cecxls, romlis

winaSec isini mowiwebas ganicdian; da am rwmeniT Tayvans scemen mas.

S. muni? p. isini RmerTs Tavis gulebSi eZeben.S. naklebadgonierni? p. maT sWirdebaT RmerTis silamazisa da didebis

gamosaxulebebi. isini amgvarad scemen Tayvans.S. atmas Semcnobni? p. isini samyaroSi gazavebul RmerTs acnobiereben, da

mxolod mas xedaven, sadac ar unda moxvdnen.S. SemiZlia gkiTxo, maT Soris vin aris yvelaze ufro diadi?p. TiToeuli diadia im safexurze, romlis miRwevac SeZlo;

magram, sinamdvileSi, udidesni arian isini, visac SeuZlia RmerTis Tandaswreba mudam da yvelaferSi igrZnos.

S. svami! xasiaTis ra Tvisebas unda gavurbodeT, ufro sworad, maTgan romeli uqmnis dabrkolebas moZraobas dabadebisa da sikvdilis wridan gaTavisuflebis gzaze?

p. isini eqvsia (ariSadvarga): kama, krodha, lobha, moha, mada da maTsaria. amaT unda eridoT.

S. ra aris kama? p. survili simdidris, sakuTrebis, pativis, mdgomareobis,

didebis, bavSvebisa, ra saWiroa bevris CamoTvla? mibmuloba grZnobiTi samyaros raime sagnebze, romelic (samyaro) aranamdvili, arasufTa da warmavalia.

S. krodha?p. survili sxvebs avno.S. lobha?p. adamianis rwmena imaSi, rom aravin ar unda sargeblobdes

mciredi nawiliTac ki imisa, rac man gamoimuSava an rac mas aqvs; aseve, rom rTul droSic ki ar Rirs gamoiyeno misi sakuTreba da amgvarad Seamciro igi.

1 orjerSobilni – vinc `kvlav daibada~ sulieri cxovrebisTvis, anu upanaianas ceremonia gaiara.

21

S. ras niSnavs moha?p. iluzias, rom erTni ufro axlos arian adamianTan, vidre

sxvebi, da survili ufro metad aamo maT, vidre sxvebs, rasac igi mihyavs im miswrafebasTa, rom maTi gulisaTvis gamoimuSaos da daagrovos.

S. mada? p. mada niSnavs Tavis Tavze did warmodgenas, romelic

viTardeba maSin, roca adamiani grZnobs, rom sxvebze meti icis an metad cnobilia. maSinac ki, roca adamians es ar aqvs, mada aiZulebs pativi ar sces ufrosebs da Tvlides, rom sxvebis grZnobebi da survilebi mxolod misTvis komfortis Seqmnasa da usafrTxoebas unda emsaxurebodes. mada ukiduresobamde misuli egoizmia.

S. da bolo axsene maTsaria. ra aris es, svami? p. roca sxvebi masaviT, an masze ufro metad bednierebi

arian, maTsaria adamians ubedurs xdis, da igi amas ver itans. S. arsebobs xasiaTis sxva Tvisebebic, romlebsac hqvia

dambha da darpa. rogor gamoisaxebian isini? p. dambha adamianebs ubiZgebs Seasrulon iaga da iajna

(msxverplis Sewirvis sxvadasxva saxe), daarigon uzarmazari Tanxa mowyalebis gaRebis saxiT mxolod imisaTvis, rom amqveyniuri dideba moipovon. darpa siamayea, romelic adamians Tan sdevs, roca igi mdidari da bednieria.

S. ras niSnavs irSia? p. survils, rom sxvebic iseve itanjebodnen ubedurebis,

simwris da gulistkivilisgan, rogorc TviTon itanjeba. S. irSia gansxvavdeba asuiisagan?p. diax. asuiia niSnavs sxvebisTvis borotebis mudmiv survils:

mzadyofnas guli atkinos, didad avnos da es survili daikmayofilos. zemoT CamoTvlili Tvisebebi Sinagani mtrebia. sanam adamiani iluziis badeSia gabmuli, romelic am mtrebma gaubes, gaTavisufleba mas fiqradac ar mouva TavSi.

Tavi 7

panCakoSa

22

S. ra unda gavakeToT imisaTvis, rom es iluziebi gaqres?p. viveka da vijniana1 gaqrobs mas. S. ramdenadac jivebi (individualuri sulebi) aireklebian budhiSi

da kutasThaSi2, arsebobs Tu ara maTi erTimeoreze dadebebi?p. SeiZleba es dadebebi erTi SexedviT SeumCnevelia,

magram isini arsebobs. S. rogor gamoixateba es? p. kutasTha xelSeuxebeli, uZravi, mSvidi da mudam

Tavisufalia. Tumca dadebebis gamo cvalebadi Cans. es aris maTi Tanaarsebobis Sedegi.

S. Zvelad zogierTebi ambobdnen, rom tat da tvam (is da Sen) erTi da igivea, erTnairia; SesaZlebelia es? ras niSnavs es? Tu SeiZleba, amixseni.

p. aiRe qoTani, saxli da suraTi. isini erTmaneTisgan gansxvavebulia, erTnairi ar aris, xom asea? magram maTSi arsebuli akaSa (sivrce) erTia. rodesac upadhi, anu SezRudulobis piroba, qreba, akaSa qoTanSi, saxlSi da suraTSi STainTqmeba akaSaTi, romelic aris Seupirobebeli, usazRvro sinaTle, romelic amas hgavs. Sinagani sinaTle da garegani sinaTle erTmaneTs erwymis.

S. gasagebia, svami. Sen Tqvi, rom adamianurma arsebam sxeulSi, romelic xuTi elementisganaa Sedgenili, unda gaacnobieros, rom atma moTavsebulia panCakoSaSi. ra aris panCakoSa?

p. `koSa~ niSnavs futliars, yuTs, garss~. xmali Cadebulia qarqaSSi. fuli inaxeba zardaxSaSi, anu koSaSi. Sen unda icode, rom am xuTganyofilebian patara CemodanSi Senaxuli sagani warmoadgens namdvil `me~-s. Tavisi WeSmeriti `me~ rom dainaxos, adamianma xuTi yuTi, panCakoSa unda gaxsnas.

S. ras warmoadgens isini, svami?p. maT hqvia anamaia, pranamaia, manomaia, vijnianamaia

da anandamaia3. S. ras niSnavs anamaia?p. es sxeuli dedis mucelSi izrdeboda anas, anu sakvebis

daxmarebiT, romelsac deda iRebda. garda amisa, dabadebis Semdegac ki igi mxolod sakvebis wyalobiT izrdeba da 1 viveka – garCevis unari, gamWriaxoba; vijniana – praqtikaSi SeZenili sibrZne. 2 kutasTha – pird. `is, vinc mwvervalzea~, mouSleli puruSa. 3 sakvebis garsi, sasicocxlo Zalis garsi, gonebis garsi, sibrZnis garsi, netarebis garsi.

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funqcionirebas ganagrZobs. sikvdilis Semdeg igi xdeba nawili miwisa, romelic sakvebs awarmoebs. amas hqvia anamaia (sakvebis garsi.

S. raSia anamaia-koSas mniSvnelovnoba? p. anamaia-koSa mniSvnelovania uxeSi sxeulisTvis, sTula-

dehasTvis, romelic tkivilisgan itanjeba da sixarulisgan zeimobsS. aris Tu ara amis sxva dsaxelebebi Tu mxolod erTi

dasaxelebaa? p. aris sxva dasaxelebebic. mas agreTve hqvia bhogaiadhana

(grZnobiTi sitkboebis momcemi). S. ras niSnavs pranamaia koSa?p. xuTi faqizi grZnobis, xuTi pranas sferos; isini am garsiT

yalibdeba. S. svami! rogorc Cans, arsebobs ara mxolod ZiriTadi pranebi,

aseve arsebobs upranebi (mcire pranebi). asea es?p. diax. maT hqvia naga, kurma, gridra, devadata da

dhananjaia. S. rogor moqmedeben isini?p. naga warmoadgens boyinis mizezs, kurma Tvalis

xamxamzea pasuxismgebeli; gridra cxviris ceminebis unaria; devadata mTqnarebas warmoSobs; dhananjaia sxeuls avsebs da aiZulebs sqeli gaxdes. sikvdilis Semdegac ki isini zemoqmedebas axdenen sxeulze da cxedarSi cvlilebebis mizezs warmoadgenen.

S. ras niSnavs manomaia koSa?p. es aris xuTi janendrias (gamocnobis organos) sfero plus

goneba, romlis instrumentebadac iqcnen isini. es aris is, rac pranamaia koSas SigniT imyofeba.

S. Sen xSirad ambob: `goneba, goneba...~. Tu SeiZleba, amixseni, ra aris goneba?

p. is, rac gaiZulebs grZnobde, rom Sen es sxeuli xar, da fiqrobde, rom yvela sagani, rac ki sxeuls Seexeba, `Cemia~. is, rac grZnobebis saSualebiT iswrafis sagnebisken siamovnebis miRebis gulisTvis. amrigad, igi warmoadgens Zalian aramdgrads, romelic mudam erTi obieqtidan meorisken iswrafis.

S. svami! rogor unda acnobierebdes adamiani, rom sxeulisgan gansxvavebulia, da anomaia-koSas gareT da zemoT imyofeba?

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p. sxeuli uCinaria dabadebamde da sikvdilis Semdeg. igi xilulia mxolod drois im SualedSi, romelic dabadebasa da sikvdils Soris devs. sxeuls aqvs dasawyisi da dasasruli, igi izrdeba da iSleba. is, rac warmoadgens `produqtebs~, `efeqtebs~, ganpirobebulia. sxeulic aseve SezRuduli da ganpirobebulia. brZeni Tavis Tavs eubneba: `me mudam varsebob; aramaterialuri var, ar maqvs mizezi da Sedegi, me am uxeSi sxeulisgan gansxvavebuli var. amrigad, SeuZlebelia es anamaia-koSa viyo. me var anamaia-koSas mcodne, damkvirvebeli~. rodesac es codna kargad gamyardeba, igi WeSmaritebas Seicnobs. man unda gaacnobieros, rom igi aRemateba anamaias futliaris zRvrebs.

S. adamiani unda acnobierebdes, rom igi pranomaia-koSas gareTaa?

p. RamiT, rodesac adamiani iZinebs, pranebi, anu vitaluri energiebi, moZraoben, magram man ar icis, ra xdeba masSi da mis garSemo. Zilis dros ar ibrZvis, roca mteri modis. igi gulgrili da pasiuria. magram `Cemi buneba es pasiuroba ar aris. me damkvirvebeli var, mudam cnobierebaSi var. me am garsebs ar warmovadgen~ - es man unda icodes, arCevdes da amgvarad fiqrobdes.

Tavi 8

ioga da mokSaS. am sxeulis daxmarebiT Cven bevrs vcodavT da bevr

saqebar saqmeebs vasrulebT, svami! maT mwuxareba da sixaruli moaqvT; magram, es `me~, romelzedac Sen ambob, - warmoadgens Tu ara igi mwuxarebisa da sixarulis Semqmnels da momxmarebels?

p. araviTar SemTxvevaSi. is, vinc akeTebs, mkeTebelia; moqmedeba cvlilebaa. moqmedeba cvlilebas warmoSobs, xom asea? amrigad, adamians eCveneba, rom igi icvleba. magram

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`me~ ucvlelia. igi mdgradia, radgan masze zegavlenas veraferi axdens. moqmedebis unari antah-karanas1 Tvisebaa. ase iRebs `me~ mkeTeblisa da moqmedebis nayofis mimRebis saxes.

S. Tu asea, maS rogor unda gavigoT am samyaroSi mosvlisa da am samyarodan sxvaSi gadasvlis Sesaxeb?

p. antah-karanas, anu linga-dehas daxmarebiT xdeba gadasvla erTi samyarodan meoreSi, erTi cxovrebidan meoreSi dagrovili damsaxurebebis Sesabamisad. swored es SezRuduli linga-deha axdens Sesvlas da gadasvlas. Sen zecis msgavsi xar – yvelgan msufevi da aradainteresebuli – da Sen ar Sedixar am samyaroSi da ar gadadixar sxvaSi. Seni buneba sul sxvaa.

S. rogor unda mivaRwioT mokSas? p. vijnianas (gamocdilebiT miRweuli sibrZnis) meSveobiT.S. diadi adamianebi ambobdnen, rom iogas meSveobiT.

marTalia es?p. esec marTalia. xom SeiZleba ori gza erTi da imave

miznisken midiodes, xom asea?S. romeli gzaa ukeTesi?p. orive gza kargi da mniSvnelovania. orive migiyvans erTi da

imave mizanTan, oRond erTdroulad orive gziT siaruls ver SeZleb. adamianebs SeuZliaT is gza airCion, romelic maTs Sinagan gulis wadils Seesatyviseba, da am gzaze sadhana asrulon. orive gza sadhakas borkilebisgan aTavisuflebs.

S. svami! jniana SeiZineba iogas meSveobiT, Tu ioga SeiZineba jnianas meSveobiT?

p. ioga iZleva jnianas; jnianas iolad moaqvs mokSa. aseTia swori pozicia.

S. raSi gamoixateba iogas efeqti da ra sargebloba moaqvs mas?

p. ioga cecxlis msgavsia, amitom gamoiyeneba sityva `iogagni~. igi yvela codvas wvavs; ase xdeba antah-karana sufTa. rodesac es xdeba, ibadeba jniana. jnianas naTeba umecrebisa da iluziis wyvdiads fantavs, da ganTavisufleba miiRweva.

S. da iogas aseTi didi SesaZleblobebi aqvs?p. ra saWiroa SekiTxva, Tuki isini aris. isini aris. ra

ganaTlebulic ar unda iyos adamiani, ra didic ar unda iyos misi 1 antah-karana – amocnobisa da moqmedebis Sinagani instrumenti, moicavs meryev gonebas (manasi), budhis (inteleqti, goniereba, romelic azrovnebas axorcielebs), Citas (mexsiereba, gamokvlevis, analizis da gagebis unari), ahamkaras (egos TviTSegnebas).

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gandgoma, ra didic ar unda iyos misi sibrZne, Tu man grZnobebi ar moToka, igi ar iqneba mokSasTvis mzad. iogas gareSe yvelafer amas erTad aRebuls ar SeuZlia igi codvisgan gaaTavisuflos. Tu codvisgan ar ganiwminda, misi antah-karana sufTa ver gaxdeba. Tu antah-karana sufTa ar aris, jnianas miRweva SeuZlebelia, jnianas gareSe ki mokSa SeuZlebelia. amrigad, ioga WeSmaritad safuZvelSi devs.

S. amis miyola Zalian Znelia, svami! moiyvane ramdenime magaliTi, romlebic amas gasagebs gaxdis gaunaTleblisTvisac ki.

p. roca qari uberavs, SeuZlia vinmes lampari aanTos? aseve, rodesac grZnobiTi survilebi Zlier uberavs, SeuZlebelia jnianas lampris anTeba; is male Caqreba, Tuki aanTebT kidec.

S. ris miRweva SeiZleba iogas meSveobiT?p. igi grZnobiTi samyaros yvela gulis wadils Slis. ioga gonebas

imorCilebs da mSvids xdis.

Tavi 9

jniana da iogaS. Sen Tqvi, rom jniana yvelaze ufro mniSvnelovania; raSi

gamoixateba jnianas funqcia?p. jniana gaiZulebs gaacnobiero atma-svarupa, ufro zustad,

Seni sakuTari realoba. S. ioga? Tu adamians ar aqvs ioga, maSin ra xdeba?p. igi koWlis msgavsia. S. da Tu adamians jniana ar aqvs? p. igi brmas hgavs.S. amboben, rom ioga yvela mankierebas da nakls spobs.

rogor xdeba es?p. SeiZleba mouxarSavi brinjis Wama? iogas da sxva

varjiSebis daxmarebiT Cita rbili xdeba. amas hqvia tapasi, simxurvale; igi xdeba tapta, cxeli. ufro metic, ioga da jniana

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karaqs da cecxls hgavs. karaqi iogaa, jniana ki – manaTobeli ali lamparSi.

S. svami! mapatie am SekiTxvisTvis. vedantas mravali maswavlebeli arsebobs. yvelam Tu icis WeSmariteba? gamoscades es realoba?

p. ratom mekiTxebi? TviTon SegiZlia gaigo es. Sexede, sufTani arian Tu ara isini guliT, azriT da gonebiT,

aqvT Tu ara maT codna TviTarsebul da yvelgan gamsWvalav paramatmanze – mxolod aseT adamianebs aqvT ufleba vedanta aswavlon, imitom rom mxolod maT SeuZliaT vedantis gancda.

S. moitans Tu ara cota sargebels mainc swavleba im adamianebis mier, romlebsac zemoTqmuli Tvisebebi ar gaaCniaT?

p. mravalgvari delikatesisa da gemrieli saWmlis mSvenieri aRwera mSiers maZRrad ver aqcevs. sityvebiT vedantis Cawvdoma amas hgavs. igi unda gamoscado, rom gaZRe. aseve usargebloa mosmena, roca swavlis survili ar aris. Tu maswavlebeli grZnobebis obieqtebisagan ar gaTavisuflda, misi swavleba TuTiyuSis ybedobaa da meti araferi. roca adamiani mosasmenad modis survilis gareSe naxos sargebeli da iswavlos, esec mxolod moCvenebiTobaa.

S. baba! Sen ambob, rom gonebis, gulis sisufTave da transcendentur da imanentur paramatmanze codna ZiriTadia. ra sargebloba moaqvs sadhanas, romelic xuTi elementisgan Semdgari sxeulisTvis sruldeba? sakmarisi ar aris is, rom adamianma jniana svarupas miaRwios?

p. Cemo kargo, mxolod imitom, rom saWe mniSvnelovani sagania navSi, xom ar SegiZlia daaskvna, rom navi saWiro ar aris? rogor gadacurav mxolod saWiT mdinares? gjerodes, rom RmerTma mogca sxeuli rogorc navi, rom samsaris (amqveyniuri cxovrebis) zRva gadacuro, da Cita, rogorc am navis ZiriTadi nawili. es pirveli safexuria vedantaSi. svarupajniana namdvilad saWes warmoadgens. magram marto is sakmarisi ar aris; aseve aucilebelia fizikur Cvevebsa da varjiSebs mieqces yuradReba. imisaTvis, rom mudmiv sulier mdgomareobas miaRwio, mniSvnelovania sxeuli moamzado.

S. kidev erTi eWvi maRelvebs, svami. rodesac fizikur disciplinazea laparaki, SeiZleba vicode, asxvavebs Tu ara erTmaneTisgan brahmavidia mamakacur da qalur sawyisebs?

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p. kargi, Cemo kargo. am navs aseTi gansxvavebebia ar gaaCnia. brahmavidia da CitaSudhi (cnobierebis siwminde) sruliad ar aris damokidebuli sqesze. vinc avadaa, wamlis ufleba aqvs, romelic gankurnavs, xom asea? aseTive saxiT, vinc bhavaTia (dabadebiT da sikvdiliT) avad, ufleba aqvs brahmavidiaze, saSualebaze, romelic bhavas arCens. SesaZloa yvelas ar SeuZlia Tavs neba misces am jadosnur wamals mimarTos, magram SeuZlebelia amtkico, rom vinmes amis ufleba ar aqvs.

S. ratom, svami, vedantis zogierTi mcodne TviTon ambobs, rom qalebs ar aqvT uflebamosileba brahmavidia iswavlon an praqtika awarmoon? rogorc Cans, navebs erTnairi buneba ar aqvT.

p. Svilo Cemo! rogorc ukve vTqvi, qalebsac da kacebsac Tanabari ufleba aqvT wamalze. magram erTnic da meorenic reJims unda icavdnen, rom wamalma mTel sistemaze imoqmedos. brahmabhavana, anu sakuTari arsis safuZvelTa safuZvlis mzera, wamals warmoadgens; amasTan erTad regularulad unda daicvaT jnianas da vairagias (gandgomis) reJimi. qalebs, SesaZloa, ar SeuZliaT es disciplinirebadi reJimi daicvan iseve regularulad, rogorc mamakacebi icaven, imitom rom ufro sustebi arian. SesaZloa imis mizezi, rom es adamianebi ar aRiareben qalTa uflebas am wamalze, am sisusteSia. magram yvelas, kacebsac da qalebsac, visac SeuZlia am wesebsa da miTiTebebs mihyves, Tanabari ufleba aqvs brahmavidias wamliT isargeblos. aseTia Cemi azri.

Tavi 10

brahmavidia da qalebiS. Sen mkacr reJimze ambobdi; mamakacebic unda icavdnen

mas, xom asea?p. ra Tqma unda! isinic sisxlisgan, xorcisgan da tvinisgan

arian Sedgenili, maTac tanjavs avadmyofoba. yoveli adamiani, romelic dabadebasa da sikvdils eqvemdebareba da am wreSi itanjeba, wamals saWiroebs. da vinc ar unda mimarTos am saSualebas, aseve unda icavdes reJims. kaci iqneba es Tu qali, Tu reJims ar icavs, ver gaeqceva avadmyofobas. kacebi ver daitrabaxeben, rom reJimisgan Tavisufalni arian, zustad da

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mkacrad unda icavdnen mas. Tu adamianma miiRo kidec brahmapadeSi (RmerTis Secnobis sulier gzaze kurTxeva), Tu mas ar gaaCnia iseTi zneobriobebi, rogoricaa sama da dama (gawonasworebuloba da TviTkontroli), igi ver gadarCeba, kaci iqneba is Tu qali.

S. magram svami, ratom ambobs Sastrebis mcodne mravali mecnieri, rom qals ufleba ar aqvs brahmavidiasken iswrafodes? ra aris amis mizezi?

p. araviTari mizezi ar arsebobs ganacxado, rom qals brahmavidiaze ufleba ar aqvs. viSnumurti bhudevis aswavlida gitas didebas; parameSvaram guru-gitas daxmarebiT brahmatatva Seaswavla parvatis. swored guru-gita aqvT mxedvelobaSi, rodesac amboben `parvati uvaCa~ (parvatim Tqva). ras aRniSnavs es sityvebi? amas garda, iSvaram parvatis gaando iogaSastra da mantraSastra. brihadaraniaka-upaniSadaSi naTqvamia, rom brZenma iajnavalkiam Tavis cols maitreiis igive brahmavidia Seaswavla. es kargad cnobili faqtia. axla ki Sen TviTon SegiZlia gansajo da sakuTari daskvna gamoitano, aqvT qalebs brahmavidiaze ufleba Tu ara.

S. sxvebic arian, svami, romlebic amboben, rom qals warTmeuli aqvs ufleba brahmaCariaze da saniasaze. marTalia es? krZalaven Tu ara amas vedebi?

p. vedebSi aris ori nawili: karmakanda da jnianakanda (ganyofilebebi moqmedebisa da sibrZnis Sesaxeb). karmakanda axalbedebisTvisaa, romlebic sulierad ganviTarebuli ar arian; jnianakanda ufro winwasulebis, ganaTlebuli inteleqtualebisTvisaa. iq ar aris naxsenebi qali an kaci am kavSirSi. damwyebni wuTisofelTan arian dakavSirebulni; rogor unda gaigon maT transcendenturi Tema atmaze jnianakandaSi? brihadaraniakaSi naxsenebia gargi da maitreia, romlebic brahmaCarias da saniasas sulieri naTebiT brwyinavdnen. mahabharataSi aseve vxedavT Subha ioginis da sxva qalebs, romlebic warmoadgenen idealur qalebs, zneobriobiT aRvsilebs.

S. SeuZliaT Tu ara qalebs brahmavidias miaRwion, Tu isini gaTxovilebi arian?

p. ratomac ara? madalasam da sxvebma miaRwies brahmajnianas, miuxedavad imisa, rom grihasThebi, diasaxlisebi iyvnen. albaT gagigonia iogavasiSThidan da puranebidan, rogor

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miaRwies maT sikeTeTa Soris yvelaze umaRless, brahmajnianas. da mere, gana upaniSadebSi naTqvami ar aris, rom katiaini, sarangi, sulabha, viSvaveda da sxvani brahmajnianas mimdevrebi iyvnen?

S. svami, arian Tu ara kidev qalebi, romlebmac, iyvnen ra grihasThebi, brahmajnianas miaRwies? da vin miaRwia mas saniasinad yofnis dros? iyvnen Tu ara iseTebi, vinc vanaprasThas stadiaze yofnis dros RvTaebriv sibrZnes miaRwia? arian Tu ar qalebi, vnc mas brahmaCarias stadiaze yofnis dros miaRwia?

p. nu fiqrob, rom ar arian qalebi, romlebmac zemoCamoTvlili stadiebidan erT-erTze yofnisas miaRwies brahmajnianas. Chodalam mas grihasThad yofnisas, sulabha-ioginim saniasad yofnisas, maitreiim mas vanaprasThas stadiaze, da gargim brahmaCarias stadiaze miaRwia. aseve iyvnen bharatas sxva diadi qalebic, romlebmac am simaRles miaRwies. Cvens droSic arian bevrni, romlebic am kategorias miekuTvnebian. me ubralod es oTxi saxeli vaxsene, imitom rom Sen mommarTe aseTi kiTxviT; amitom enTuziazms mainc nu kargav. nu Relav amaze.

S. im dros roca amdeni magaliTi gvaqvs imisa, roca qalebi brahmavidias aRweven, ratom unda arsebobdes amis sawinaaRmdego uamravi azri? rogor SeiZleba qalebs SezRudvebi dauweso?

p. es sruli absurdia – brahmajnianas miRwevis ufleba waarTva qalebs. magram amqveyniur saqmeebSi aucilebelia, rom maT zogierTi SezRudva daicvan. es SezRudvebi mxolod dharmis interesebs emsaxureba da loka-kalianisTvis (miwieri keTildReobisTvis) arsebobs. sazogadoebis socialuri janmrTelobisa da moralis dasacavad saWiroa, rom qalebi mas mihyvebodnen. isini metismetad sustni arian, rom cxovrebis garkveuli wesebi da wesrigi daicvan; maT zogierTi bunebrivi siZnele aqvT, da amaSia SezRudvebis mizezi. es imas ar niSnavs, rom aris raime arsebiTi damcireba. panditebic (swavlulebi) ki da Sastrebis mcodnenic xom aRweven jnianas mowiwebuli Tayvaniscemis gziT, romliTac isini epyrobian qalebis RvTaebas, sarasvatis. vidias (codnis) mTavari RvTaeba, aseve simdidrisa da sibrZnis RvTaebebi qalebi arian. esenia sarasvati, laqSmi da parvati. safosto korespondenciaSic ki, rodesac adresati qalia, mas ase mimarTaven: `mas... laqSmis msgavsi rom aris~ da a.S. Sen

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mudam ambob: mata-pita (deda-mama), gauri-Sankara, laqSmi-naraiana, sita-rama, radha-kriSna da a.S. Tavidan qalis saxelia, Semdeg ki – kacis. aqedan SegiZlia gaigo, ra did pativs scemen aq qals.

S. Tvli Tu ara Sen, rom kacsa da qals Soris gansxvavebbebi mitia-jnianaa (cru codnaa) Tu amas afaseb rogorc atma-jnianas?

p. Cemo kargo! atmas ar gaaCnia gansxvavebebi, igi marad sufTa, sxivmosili da Segnebulia. gansxvaveba SeiZleba mxolod mitia-jniana iyos da arasodes ar iqneba atma-jniana. gansxvaveba fesvebs idgams upadhiSi – niRabSi, SezRudulobaSi. atma ar SeiZleba iyos mamrobiTi, mdedrobiTi an saSualo sqesis; upadhi formaa, romelic zRudavs da atyuebs da romelic saxelebs atarebs.

Tavi 11

aSramebi da varnebiS. svami! oTxi aSramidan – brahmaCaria, grihasTha,

vanaprasTha da saniasa - romeli aSramaa yvelaze ufro mniSvnelovani?

p. rogorc yovelive cocxali damokidebulia pranavaiuze (cxovrebis sunTqvaze), aseve yvela aSrama damokidebulia grihasTha aSramaze (ojaxis ufrosis stadiaze). swored is amaragebs maT sasmel-saWmliT, zrdis maT, vedebis Seswavlas axalisebs, saRvTo werilebisken mihyavs. amrigad, grihasTha-aSrama yvelaze ufro mniSvnelovani stadiaa. Sruti `narada parivrajakopaniSadSi~ naTqvamia, rom grihasTha, romelic Tavis aSrama-dharmas zustad icavs, udidesi pativiscemis Rirsia.

S. magram svami, zogierTebi amboben, rom saniasebi grihasThas aRematebian. ramdenad marTalia es?

p. rogoric ar unda iyos aSrama, Tu adamiani am situaciisTvis miweril dharmas mihyveba, praqtikis SesrulebisTvis zrunavs da

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Tavisufleba swyuria, igi miaRwevs mas, amaSi eWvi ar arsebobs. atmajnianis misaRebad aucilebeli ar aris romelime erT aSramas mivaniWoT upiratesoba, yvela aSramas SeuZlia warmateba uzrunvelyos. aq ar aris maRali da dabali. es mxolod da mxolod im qcevebis niSnebi da Taviseburebebia, romlebic SeiZleba miviRoT rogorc maRali da dabali.

S. svami! amboben, rom grihasTha boWavs, brahmaCaria da saniasa ki aTavisuflebs. saidan modis es azri?

p. me amas ar veTanxmebi. is, vinc patiosnad Soulobs fuls, vinc stumrebs pativs scems, vinc axloblebs emsaxureba da asiamovnebs, gaTavisuflebas aRwevs iseve, rogorc is, vinc umaRlesi sulis ZiriTadi filosofia kargad SeiTvisa. aravis SeuZlia gadacuros dabadebisa da sikvdilis okeane mxolod imitom, rom igi saniasi an brahmaCariaa.

maRali warmomavloba, miRwevebi asketizmSi, beris wodeba, Rrma codna – es yvelaferi ar dagexmarebaT TavisTavad. aseve aucilebelia rwmena gqondeT, mudam mihyvebodeT svadharmas (sakuTar dharmas), swavlobdeT saRmrTo werilebs, iseTebs rogoricaa vedebi da bhagavad gita, agreTve sulier cxovrebas eweodeT, japas da dhianas (locvas da meditacias) mimarTavdeT.

S. svami! ra zneobriobebi unda ganaviTaros adamianma yovel aSramaSi, rom gaTavisuflebas miaRwios?

p. arsebobs aTi zneobrioba, romlebic erTad adgens moswavlis ZiriTad dharmas: daia, a-steia, dhi, vidia, satia, indria-nigraha, SuCami, qSama, driThi da a-krodha (TanagrZnoba, sxvisis armiTviseba, gamWriaxoba, codna, simarTle, grZnobebis kontroli, sisufTave, moTmineba, medegoba, araRvarZlianoba). es aTi zneobrioba yovelma adamianma unda ganaviTaros, miuxedavad aSramisa. es sakmarisia, rom gadagarCinos, sadac ar unda iyo. Tu isini adamianma ar ganaviTara, misi cxovreba tyuilad iqneba daxarjuli, rac ar unda iyos misi aSrama. misi cxovrebis yoveldRiuri mimdinareoba yvelaze mniSvnelovania, da masSi es aTi Tviseba unda gamovlindes. es WeSmariteba gaacno arjunas kriSnam arjunas kiTxvis pasuxad.

S. svami, Sen Tqvi, rom arjunam kriSnas SekiTxva dausva aT zneobriobaze, romelTa daxmarebiTac nitiakarmas agroveben. ra upasuxa kriSnam?

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p. kriSnam uTxra: `gaTavisuflebis umaRlesi stadia aris is, romelsac aRweven sanqhia-iogas1 da jniana-iogas adeptebi; imasve aRweven niSkama karma-iogas2 mimdevrebi; erTnic da meorenic erTnair Sedegs aRweven. icode, rom es WeSmaritebaa. ar aris gansxvaveba grihasThebsa da saniasiebs Soris. saWiroa mxolod Seupovari praqtika da gulwrfeli qceva. es saWiroebs survilebisgan gandgomas, egoizmze da sakuTrebis grZnobaze uaris Tqmas, uaris Tqmas aqtiur azrovnebazec ki, da mxolod brahmatatvas (RvTaebrivi arsis) daZabul mzeras. vinc amas miaRwia, misTvis mwuxareba ar arsebobs, imitom rom umecrebis kvalic ki ar aris. brZens, romelmac am simaRles miaRwia, verasodes moatyuebs mcdari da warmavali. Tu sicocxlis ukanasknel wamsac ki adamiani am jnianas Seicnobs, igi aucileblad gaTavisufldeba dabadebisa da sikvdilis wrisagan~.

S. ratom iqna dadgenili kastebi (varnebi)? p. isini fizikur aspeqts miekuTvneba da sulierze sulac ar

axdens gavlenas. isini materialur struqturaze miuTiTebs. ra Tqma unda, `fizikurs~ miekuTvneba aseve goneba, Cita, antahkarana da a.S. Tu isini ar avarjiSeT da ar SezRudeT, SeuZlebelia gaigoT atma-dharma. jaThi, maTha, dharma (ritualebi, religiebi, kanonebi) – es yvelaferi exmareba adamianis instiqtebisa da gulis wadilis regulirebasa da amaRlebas. am mizezis gamo miiReben maT da iswrafian maTken brZenebi. Tu raime saxiT saWiroa atmas buneba davaxasiaToT, maSin es buneba aris sat-Cit-ananda (WeSmariti yofiereba, sruli gacnobiereba, netareba). amis gacnobiereba mxolod gulis da gonebis gawmendis Semdeg SeiZleba. am siwmindes miRweul adamians, romel kastasac ar unda miekuTvnebodes igi, SeuZlia mokSas miaRwios; ase weria SastrebSi. Tu adamiani Sepyrobilia erTnis mimarT mibmulobiT da meoreTa mimarT siZulviliT, maSin junglebSic Tu ganmartovda, igi mxolod borotebas gadaeyreba. magram Tu adamiani grihasThas cxovrebas eweva ojaxSi da Tu grZnobebi daamarcxa, igi aris namdvili tapasvi (asketi). is, vinc karmaSia gaxveuli, ar aris ganwiruli, mas ufleba aqvs jniani gaxdes. vinc mibmuli ar aris, misTvis saxli ganmartoebuli adgilia. imaT, visac STamomavloba 1 sanqhia – indoeTis eqvsi ZiriTadi filosofiuri skolidan erT-erTi, romelic ikvlevs materialuri obieqtebis bunebas da TviTSemecnebisken mimaval gzas warmoadgens; sanqhia-ioga – codnis, materiisa da umaRlesi sulis bunebis Cawvdomis gza. 2 niSkama karma-ioga – moqmedebaTa gza, rodesac maTi Sedegebis mimarT interesi ar arsebobs.

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aqvT, simdidre aqvT da vinc moRvaweobiT arian dakavebuli, iajnebis, iagebis da msgavsi ritualebis daxmarebiT SeuZliaT gaTavisuflebas miaRwion. gaTavisuflebis msurveli ubralod Tavisufali unda iyos mibmulobebisgan. mibmulobebi Cveni borkilebia.

Tavi 12

Sastrebi da saniasaS. svami, Sen ambobdi, rom adamiani unda iqceodes erTgvari

saxiT da ar unda iqceodes sxvagvarad. rogor unda gavigoT, ra saxiT unda moviqceT? ra warmoadgens avtoritets?

p. Sastrebia avtoriteti. `manusmritebi~ (manus kanonTa krebuli) amboben, magaliTad, rom varnebi da aSramebi arsebobs mxolod fizikuri gawmendisaTvis da umaRlesis miRwevaSi warmatebaze an warumateblobaze gavlenas ar axdens.

S. Tu es asea, maSin risTvis arsebobs varnebi, aSramebi da maTTan dakavSirebuli wesebi da SezRudvebi?

p. o, isini aucilebelia, sanam mibmulobisgan, ragasgan ar xar Tavisufali. amis gulisaTvis mniSvnelovania uzustesad Seasrulo miTiTebebi, SezRudvebi da wesebi. wamali unda miiRo, sanam avadmyofoba ar gnebdeba. yovel avadmyofobas Tavisi wamali aqvs, romelic mas daamarcxebs, xom asea? agreTve specialuri dieta da reJimia saWiro. rodesac avadmyofobas daamarcxebs, adamians SeuZlia mSvidad moilxinos. Tu avadmyofi da janmrTeli erT lxinSi monawileoben, amas mZime Sedegebi moaqvs. varnebi da aSramebi imaTTvis miwerili wamalia, vinc daavadebulia bhavarogas (wuTisofelze mibmulobis) avadmyofobiT. raga (mibmuloba) aris roga (avadmyofoba), da roga mxolod maSin gaqreba, roca reJims mkacrad daicav. Tu amas ar SeiTviseb, ver

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gadarCebi. aseTia vedantis WeSmariti mniSvneloba; vinc icis is, mukTis miaRwevs, romel aSramasac ar unda miekuTvnebodes igi.

S. svami! arian Tu ara iseTi diadi sulebi, vinc grihasThad, anu ojaxis ufrosad yofnis dros mokSas, anu gaTavisuflebas miaRwia?

p. mefeebi janaka, aSvapati, dilipa – ai im adamianTa magaliTebi, romlebmac grihasThad yofnis dros mokSas miaRwies.

S. svami! aucilebelia Tu ara adamiani zustad mihyvebodes Srutis miTiTebebs, romlebic mas movaleobas akisrebs brahmaCarias stadiis dasrulebis Semdeg grihasThis momdevno stadia gaiaros, Semdeg vanaprasThaSi Sevides da am stadiis yvela SezRudva da wesi Seasrulos, amis Semdeg ki miiRos saniasi, sruli gandgomis cxovreba? Tu SeiZleba wina stadiebis gauvlelad saniasi miiRos?

p. diax, Tu adamianma mibmulobebisagan gaTavisuflebas miaRwia, mas SeuZlia saniasa miiRos. Tu es Sansi xelidan gauSva, igi iZulebulia daeces. ra stadiazec ar unda iyo da romel aSramaSic ar unda imyofebode, roca srul gandgomas miiReb, swored im momentSi saniasis stadiaSi Sedixar. ar aris mkacri wesi, romlis mixedviTac valdebuli xar wina sami stadia gaiaro. esec Srutis miTiTebaa. aq mizezi imaSia, rom aseT sufTa suls ukve aqvs gamocdileba, romelic sxva stadiebze miiRweva – wina dabadebebSi miRebul gamocdebSi miRweuli gawmenda. aseTi sulis momSleli impulsebi sruliad CaxSobilia, da progresuli, amamaRlebeli miswrafebebi wina cxovrebaSi ganviTarda.

S. rogor unda gavigoT, rom aseTi transmutacia ukve miRweulia wina dabadebebSi? aris Tu ara raime niSnebi, romelTa daxmarebiTac SegviZlia davadginoT, rom esa Tu is stadia, an aSrama SeiZleba gamovtovoT? miTxari, Tu aris aseTi niSnebi.

p. is faqti, rom adamians midrekileba ar aqvs sami aSramisaken, rom ar aqvs maTze mibmuloba da maTken miswrafeba, yvelaze ufro marTebuli niSania. Tu mibmulobebisagan gaTavisufleba wina cxovrebaSi ganviTarda, midrekileba ar iqneba. roca Cndeba Segneba, rom mxolod atmania realuri, adamiani Tavisufldeba winamorbedi sami aSramisagan. roca gandgoma vlindeba, adamians SeuZlia wuTisoflis cxovrebaze uari Tqvas, sxva stadiebis gadabijebac Tu mouxda. es SrutiSia dasabuTebuli. magram rodesac moswavles saniasad aziarebs, adamianma Zirfesvianad unda Seamowmos igi

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da darwmundes, rom moswavle Tavisufalia gulis wadilebisa da mibmulobebisagan. saniasad mxolod is unda aziaro, visi gonebac mSvidia, anu vritisgan (aRZvrebisa da meryeobebisagan) gaTavisuflebulia; mxolod aseT adamianze SeiZleba iTqvas, rom mibmuli ar aris. aseve moswavlemac unda Seamowmos Tavisi Tavi da gaigos, ramdenad Tavisufalia misi Sida cnobiereba gunebisagan1 – pasiuria, aqtiuria Tu progresulic kia. Tu misi cnobiereba sakmaod Tavisufali ar aris, arsebobs saSiSroeba, rom Sedegad igi saniasis aRTqmas daarRvevs, da Tu es moxdeba, maSin igi SeiZleba tvirTiT gaiWylitos, waritacos Zirs da misi bolo samwuxaro iqneba.

S. saniasa mravalgvari arsebobs Tu misi mxolod erTi saxea?p. arsebobs saniasas sami saxe. es aris dehasaniasa,

manosaniasa da atmasaniasa. S. ras niSnavs dehasaniasa?p. igi saniasaa SesaxedaobiT, ramdenadac igi gare sxeuls

exeba. adamiani narinjisfer tansacmels atarebs, miiRebs saxels, formalobebs icavs, magram atmas cnobiereba ar aqvs; igi daexeteba obieqtur survilebs Soris, romlebic gareSe sagnebs Seexeba, da hgavs Cveulebriv adamians Tavisi gulis wadilebiTa da miznebiT.

S. manosaniasa?p. manosaniasa yvela gadawyvetilebaze da survilze uars

ambobs, gonebas mkacri kontrolis qveS amyofebs; mas ar aRelvebs gulis zraxvebi da gancdebi, igi mudam mSvidi da mokrebilia.

S. mesame axsene atmasaniasa.p. atmasaniasa spobs yvela azrs, romelic atmas ar Seexeba,

da amitomac mudam WeSmariti arsis (`aham brahmasmi~ - `me var brahmani~) mzeraSia CaZiruli. mudam acnobierebs, rom is atmaa. misi ananda gaxangrZlivebulia – akandaa. aseT saniasas hqvia amritasaniasa. yvelaze did wyvdiads gafantavs mxolod sinaTle, romelic mbrwyinavi mzis diskodan gamoedineba; aseTive saxiT atmasaniasas elvarebis gareSe SeuZlebelia umecrebis damarcxeba: SeuZlebelia gatexva futlarisa, sadac gulia dafaruli, da atma ver ibrwyinebs mTeli Tavisi didebulebiT. 1 gunebi – bunebis Tvisebebi; arsebobs sami guna – tamasi (inertuloba, CamorCeniloba, umecreba); rajasi (aqtiuroba, mRelvareba, mgznebareba); satva (siwminde, gawonasworebuloba, codnisken miswrafeba).

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S. rogor unda mivaRwioT saniasas TiToeul saxes? ra niSnebia, romlebic imaze miuTiTebs, rom saniasas esa Tu is saxe miRweulia?

p. dehasaniasa miiRweva garCevis daxmarebiT maradiulsa da warmavals, wuTiersa da xangrZlivs Soris. manosaniasas maSin miaRwevT, rodesac metyvelebis, grZnobebis, gonebis kaprizebs daamarcxebT. atmasaniasas is aRwevs, romlis azrovnebac vedanturi azrovnebis principebs erwymis. rodesac ganaTlebis zegavlena ufro Zlieri gaxdeba da am zneobriobebsa da poziciebs kargad SeiTviseb, SeZleb miaRwio gaTavisuflebas, romelic sxvadasxva stadiis erToblivi efeqtis Sedegi gaxdeba.

S. vin aris maT Soris namdvilad bednieri, vin cxovrobs ise, rom misi cxovreba yvelaze ufro did yuradRebas imsaxurebs?

p. is, vinc futkariviT Cumad da udidesi netarebiT wovs Tafls yvavilidan, visac unda mudam STanTqavdes atmas netarebis neqtars, vinc ignorirebas ukeTebs wuTisofels, rogorc `scenas~ (driSias), - is namdvilad yvelaze ufro bednieria, da misi cxovreba yvelaze ufro Rirseulia.

S. svami, ras niSnavs Zvel xalxTa monaTxrobebi satias, nitias, nirmalas da Santis miRwevebze? rogor unda mivaRwioT WeSmaritebas, maradiulobas, siwmindes da simSvides?

p. rogorc ukve vTqvi, vinc `scenas~ ki ar ebmmis, aramed atmas netarebaSia Cafluli, - swored is aRwevs satias, nitias, nirmalas da Santis. Tu mxolod erT ramesac ki aRwevs, es sakmarisia, radgan erTi yvelafers moicavs.

Tavi 13

mantra da japaS. arsebobs Tu ara mantra an japa (locva), romelic Santis

mdgomareobas iZleva, ris Sesaxebac axla ambobdi?p. mantra da japa yvelasTvisaa mniSvnelovani. ra aris

mantra? `ma~ niSnavs `manass~ (gonebas), `tra~ niSnavs `xsnas~; amrigad, `mantra~ niSnavs `imas, rac Tqven gixsniT,

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Tu amaze akeTebT meditacias~. mantras SeuZlia gixsnas amqveyniuri cxovrebis maxisagan, es cxovreba ki savsea sikvdiliT, ubedurebiTa da gulistkiviliT. mantrebidan pranava (om) yvelaze umaRlesi da ukeTesia. igi warmoadgens yvela mantras WeSmarit sawyiss da gvirgvins.

S. davuSvaT, yoveli adamiani imeorebs iStadevatas (Tavisi sayvareli RvTaebis) saxels sakuTari cnobierebis donis Sesabamisad. vfiqrob es sworia. Tu ara?

p. Sen Tvli, rom rogori suleli da gaunaTlebelic ar unda iyos adamiani, mas ar SeuZlia RmerTs ar Seevedros. Tu RmerTis saxels `om~-iT adideb, igi dauyovnebliv sargebels mogitans. zustad iseve, rogorc mzis sxivebis daxmarebiT okeanis wyali caSi adis, Semdeg wvimad iqceva, nakadulebsa da mdinareebs qmnis da okeanisken iswrafis, rom erTxelac kvlav okeanis wyali gaxdes, aseve yvela bgera da mantra, romlebic winaT mxolod pranava iyo, japas da sxva ritualebis gziT aRweven pranavas. yvela isini CaeSvebian pranavaSi, TavianT wyaroSi.

S. svami! Zvel droSi zogierTebi ambobdnen, rom rac ufro metia mantraSi bija-aqSara1, miT ufro efeqturia igi. unda vamjobinoT Tu ara aseTi mantrebi sxva mantrebs, romlebSiac cotaa bija-aqSara?

p. me ar veTanxmebi im Tvalsazriss, rom bija-aqSaras raodenobis SemcirebasTan erTad mcirdeba dhianaSi yuradrebis mokrebis albaTobac. sadhakebi met sargebels miiRebdnen, Tuki gaimeorebdnen panCaqSaras an aSTaqSaras2, TavSi pranavas damatebiT. gaivlian ra amgvarad raRac manZils, maT SeuZliaT sityvebzec ki Tqvan uari da koncentrireba moaxdinon formaze, romelic xmis daxmarebiT aris aRwerili, da mantras TviT devatad (RvTaebad) transformacia moaxdinon. amitom ambobs Sruti: `nisSabdo brahma uCiate~ - `brahmani mdumareba, xmis ararsebobaa~.

S. rogor unda `SevqmnaT~ xmis ararseboba? rogor SeuZlia am ukanasknels brahmani iyos?

p. SrutiSi naTqvamia, rom es obieqturi samyaro, prakriti, aris maia (iluzia). is, visac maia kontrolis qveS hyavs, iSvaraa (ufalia). 1 bija-aqSara – marcvali `biju~ (Tesli). bija-mantrebi (iam, hum, krim, ham da a.S.) es aris sityvebi an bgerebi, romlebisganac sxva mantrebi aRmocendeba da amitom maT gansakuTrebuli Zala gaaCniaT.2 xuTmarcvliani an rvamarcvliani mantrebi, magaliTad, `namo Sivaia~ an (om) `namo naraianaia~.

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amrigad, scade mTeli qmnileba kontrolze aiyvano, da TviTon gaxdebi iSvara. maSinve, rogorc ki es Sesruldeba, obieqturi samyaro SenTvis ararad iqceva, da am stadiaze brahmans miaRwev. sanam amas yuradRebas ar aqcev, eWvgareSea, brahmans ver miaRwev. iseve, rogorc gveli tyavs iZrobs da axliT imoseba, sadhakac agdebs Zvel tyavs da icvams tyavs RvTaebisas, gamJRavnebuls mantraSi, romelzedac sadhaka meditacias axdens.

S. mapatie, svami! ver gamigia es yvelaferi. magaliTze amixseni.

p. xom ginaxavs kvercxi? roca frinveli ramdenime xans kvercxs azis, SigniT bartyi saWiro zomebamde viTardeba da Semdeg naWuWs texs, gamodis da Tavis realur formas iRebs. aseTive saxiT, rodesac sadhaka gawmendili cnobierebis wyalobiT mantraSi imyofeba da mis mniSvnelobaze fiqrobs ganuwyvetliv gonebaSi, misi xedva izrdeba, ajnianas naWuWi imsxvreva, da igi iwyebs RvTaebriobis naTebas, romelic cnobierebaSi Camoayaliba.

S. yvelaferi pranavadan gamodis da, saboloo jamSi, pranavaSi iZireba – ase amboben. maS ratom amboben ufrosebi, rom arian adamianebi, romlebsac SeuZliaT pranava warmoTqvan, da arian adamianebi, romlebsac es ar SeuZliaT?

p. ra aris prakriti (buneba), Tu ara xuTi elementis narevi? pranava yvela elementis WeSmariti cxovreba da, amgvarad, TviT prakritis cxovelmyofeli sunTqvaa. kldidan gadmosuli wylis nakadi warmoTqvams om-s; talRebi koncxis napirs exeTqeba da warmoTqvams om-s. CasunTqvisa da amosunTqvis xmac pranavaa, xom asea? ician Tu ara maT, rom SeZaxilebi adamianebisa, romlebsac taxtrevani miaqvT, sunTqva imaTi, vinc simZimeebs eweva, imaTi SeZaxilebi, vinc mdinaris piras TeTreuls recxavs – yvela es xmebi pranavas TanaJReradia? imeore igi mTeli Sinagani azris sruli gacnobierebiT, da male amqveyniuri gancdebis tvirTi Semsubuqdeba. sunTqvis pranava aseve amsubuqebs tanjvebs. uazrobaa imis mtkiceba, rom zogierTebs aqvT ufleba gaaJReron igi, sxvebs ki ara. vinc ar sunTqavs, SesaZloa aseTi ufleba arc ki aqvT; magram ar arsebobs mizezi aekrZalos vinmes pranavas gaJRereba, radgan yvela, vinc sunTqavs, mudam warmoTqvams mas sunTqvis dros. nuTu Sen ar ici, ra upasuxa kriSnam, roca arjunam hkiTxa, rogor unda

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gaaxsendes adamians RmerTi sikvdilis momentSi? man Tqva, rom adamiani gonebaSi unda warmoTqvamdes pranavas, romelic RmerTisgan ganuyofelia. aseTi saxiT, Tqva man, bhaqTi umaRles mizans aRwevs. yovel adamians aqvs ufleba am diad mantraze, pranavaze.

S. rogor unda mivaRwioT mizans pranavas TayvaniscemiT? rogor unda iqces meditaciaSi myofi adamiani imad, razedac igi meditacias awarmoebs? amixseni ubralo ilustraciebis daxmarebiT es Seudarebeli mantra da is, Tu rogor gvexmareba igi.

p. kargi. pranava mSvildia, atma – isari, parabrahmani ki – samizne. sadhaka, mSvildosnis msgavsad, ar unda moeqces imis gavlenis qveS, rac gonebas aRelvebs. igi mudam unda xedavdes mizans, rogorc mSvildosani, romlis yuradRebac samizneSia STanTqmuli, - da maSin igi imad xdeba, razedac meditacias axdens. kaivalia upaniSadaSi, mundaka upaniSadaSi da Srutis sxvadasxva nawilSi pranava yovelnairad gandiddeba. amitom yvelas SeuZlia imeoros igi da meditacia awarmoos am mantraze, romelsac adamianisTvis gaTavisufleba moaqvs. eWvi ar unda gqondes imaSi, rom yvelas SeuZlia awarmoos pranava-upasana (om-is Tayvaniscemis praqtika).

Tavi 14

tapasiS. SeuZlia Tu ara adamians gaacnobieros atma da Caeflos,

rogorc Sen ambob, pranavaSi am materialur sxeulTan erTad, romelic xuTi elementisganaa Sedgenili? SeiZleba Tu ara atmas izolireba sxeulisgan? rogor unda gakeTdes es?

p. adamians dhianas da sxva varjiSebis daxmarebiT, pranava-mantras gameorebis daxmarebiT SeuZlia atma gaacnobieros da sxeulisagan gaacalkeos. es procesi hgavs naRebisagan karaqis miRebas, Sirbaxtisagan zeTis, qveniadagis fenidan wylis, xidan cecxlis miRebas. oRond aucilebelia dRveba, gawurva, danawevreba, gaburRva, gaCarxva – da morCa. rodesac sxeuli da atma gancalkevebulia, qreba rwmena imaSi, rom `me~ sxeulia.

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S. svami! mravali uxucesi da brZeni ambobs, rom jivatma (sxeuliT SezRuduli atma) unda warmovidginoT rogorc paramatma, rom kultivireba unda movaxdinoT am grZnobisa, am darwmunebulobisa. nuTu es SesaZlebelia?

p. ratom fiqrob, rom es Znelia? gana ufro advili ar aris ilaparako simarTle, vidre tyuili? Sen ki axla tyuils WeSmaritebad asaReb, da amitom uamravi siZnele iqmneba. miiRe WeSmariteba, rom jivatma da paramatma erTi da igivea, da yvelaferi gaadvildeba. jer gaacnobiere, rom atma, jivatma sxeuls ar exeba. amis gakeTeba dhianas da a.S. daxmarebiT SegiZlia. rogorc aromati da yvavili, Saqari da lerwami, oqro da klde gansxvavdeba erTmaneTisgan, aseve atma gansxvavdeba fizikuri sxeulisgan. amis Semdeg nidhidhiasanas (Rrma fiqris), erT obieqtze yuradRebis mokrebisa da meditaciis daxmarebiT, SegiZlia warmoidgino jivatma da paramatma rogorc erTi. es aris tapasis dasruleba, saboloo nirvana.

S. ra aris tapasi? p. es niSnavs grZnobaTa moqmedebebis Sewyvetas;

adamiani maTi sruli batoni unda iyos. dauflebis wyurvilisa da sakvebis survilis kvalic ki ar unda darCes. tapasi moicavs Zalisxmevas imisken, rom brahmans miaRwio, am miznisken mudmiv miswrafebas. es unda gamovlindes sakvebisa da Zilisgan Tavis SekavebaSi. es gulisxmobs tanjvas absolutis realizaciis gulisaTvis. aseT tapass satvuri hqvia.

S. ra aris rajasiuri tapasi?p. vinc ubralod auZlurebs da asustebs sxeuls, amasTan

grZnobebs ar alagmavs da emociebs ar akontrolebs, is mxolod rajasiur tapass asrulebs. igi ar Seicnobs atma-tatvas da ar awarmoebs meditacias masze, mxolod fizikur asketizms uTmobs yuradRebas.

S. albaT arsebobs agreTve tamasiuri tapasi. p. arsebobs. tamasiuri tapasi aris roca adamiani RmerTebs

didebis mopovebisTvis guls ulbobs da, xmarobs ra didebas rogorc instruments, unda samyaro sakuTari interesebisaTvis gamoiyenos. mxolod iseTi tapasi warmoadgens WeSmarits, romelic miznad isaxavs RmerTis miRwevas, brahmanis realizacias, umaRlesi sibrZnis dauflebas. mxolod aseT tapass iwoneben Sastrebi. yovelive danarCens SecdomaSi Sehyavxar,

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mizans gacilebs. mxolod SastrebSi mowonebuli tapasi imsaxurebs am dasaxelebas. yovelive danarCeni tamasia, da ara tapasi. `tapasi~ niSnavs `mxurvales~; simxurvale codvebsa da karmas mTlianad wvavs.

S. SastrebSi naTqvamia, rom aSramebSi riSebs (wmindan brZenebs) sami Rirebuleba hqondaT: Cintamani, kalpavriqSa da kamadenu (Zvirfasi qva, xe da Zroxa, romlebic survilebs aRasruleben). isini maT yvelafers aZlevdnen, rasac ki moisurvebdnen. ver gamigia, raSi sWirdebodaT maT tapasis Sesruleba? Tu SeiZleba, amixseni.

p. Tu kargad dafiqrdebi, mixvdebi, rom sinamdvileSi Cintamani Zvirfasi qva ar aris, kalpavriqSa xe ar aris da kamadenu Zroxa ar aris. es yvelaferi tapasis Sedegebis dasaxelebebia. maT miniWebuli hqondaT is, rac tapasis Semsrulebels avtomaturad eZleva. Tavidan igi iRebs yvelafers, rac surs. amas hqvia kalpavriqSasidhi. amis Semdeg igi yvela survils imorCilebs, da amas hqvia kamadenusidhi. ra aris Cintamanisidhi? es aris stadia, roca ar gaqvs Cinta – gonebis mRelvareba, stadia, roca ar aris tanjva. rodesac Cinta qreba da umaRlesi ananda Cndeba, es aris Cintamanisidhi. Cinta unda gaqres azrebidan, sityvebidan da qcevebidan.

S. aseve amboben mentalur tapasze. ras niSnavs igi?p. metyvelebis kontrolis dacva; grZnobaTa siwmindis

kultivireba, Tvinierebis praqtika. mudam ifiqre brahmatatvaze, da SeiZleba iTqvas, rom mentalur tapass icav.

S. fizikuri tapasi?p. isic kargia Taviseburad. ufrosebis, sulieri maswavleblebis,

wmindanebis, brZenebis, RmerTis Tayvaniscemas ganwmenda moaqvs. araZaladoba, simpaTia yvela arsebis mimarT, patiosneba – yvelafer amas moaqvs fizikuri keTildReoba, janmrTeloba da sargebeli. mentalur tapass gonebis gawmenda moaqvs. metyvelebis kontroli, anu tapasi metyvelebis gawmendas iwvevs. tapasis am sami saxeobis daxmarebiT SeiZleba sami Zvirfaseuloba SeiZino: kamadenu, kalpavriqSa da Cintamani. es yvelaferi miRwevebia, da ara ubralod Zroxa, xe da ganZi.

S. arseboben Tu ara iseTi pirovnebebi, romlebmac warmatebuli tapasis daxmarebiT brhmatatvas da dharmatatvas miaRwies? Tu SeiZleba, momiTxre maT Sesaxeb.

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p. kapila mahamunim (diadma asketma) brahmatatvas miaRwia, brZenma jaimini mahamunim dharmatatvas miaRwia, narada gaxda brahmariSi (RvTaebrivi brZeni), mefe bhagiraTham ganga moitana zecidan, wmindanma gandegilma gautamam daiyolia Godavari dedamiwaze gadmoRvriliyo, brZenma valmikim rama-mantras Zala gaacnobiera, ramac mas SesaZlebloba misca ramaiana Seedgina, wmindani qali gargi brahmaCariaSi gamyarda, sulabha ki – sulier sibrZneSi, - es yvelaferi mxolod tapasis daxmarebiT. tapasis gziT brahmamac da rudramac ki Seqmnes samyaro.

S. svami! Tvli Tu ara Sen, rom aseTi maRali stadiis misaRwevad aucilebelia maRal kastaSi dabadeba? Tu sakmarisia umaRlesi rigis sadhanis Sesruleba?

p. kasta xasiaTis gareSe mniSvnelobas moklebulia, es carieli iarliyia. sadhana, romelic xasiaTze ar aris dafuZnebuli, brmis mogzaurobas hgavs. morali, zneobrioba, xasiaTi – ai ra aris uaRresad mniSvnelovani. Tu sadhana sruldeba am safuZvelze da Tanaxmad danawesebisa, romlebic mocemulia im gzisTvis, romelic adamianma airCia, igi ueWvelad warmatebuli iqneba. magram Sen yuradReba unda miaqcio mniSvnelovan gafrTxilebebs. ar unda izarmaco ubralod imitom, rom jaThi, anu warmomavloba, arc ise mniSvnelovania. niThi, anu moraluri normebi, geZleva aseve jaThis Sesabamisad; amrigad, maTi Sesrulebis pirobiT, jaThis cnobiereba (ama Tu im kastas mikuTvneba) sasargeblo da mniSvnelovania. Tu adamianma wina dabadebebSi damsaxurebebi daagrova, ris Sedegsac warmoadgens sikeTisa da zneobriobis ganZis floba, misTvis saWiro ar aris didi mniSvneloba mianiWos jaThis. mxolod imas eqneba srulyofilebis es saxe, vinc wina cxovrebebSi eweoda iogas da ver SeZlo am procesis dasruleba. ZiriTadi, rac saWiroa, es aris SeZena niThisa, romelic jaThisTvis aris miwerili, jaThis miyola niThis Sesabamisad da cxovrebaSi umaRlesi mdgomareobis Rirsad gaxdoma. sulieri sadhanas gzis garkveul monakveTze dagexmareba warmomavlobac, da misi Sesabamisi moraluri normebic (jaThi da niThi). gunebi (Tvisebebi) aseve amaRldeba jaThis da niThis daxmarebiT.

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S. amitom, albaT, arseboben isini, vinc RmerTs miaRwia, daagrova ra zneobriobebi wina cxovrebebSi. Tu SeiZleba, ramdenime magaliTi moiyvane.

p. Cemo kargo! ar Rirs bevri dro dakargo mdinaris saTavis saZebnelad; igive SeiZleba iTqvas riSebis wina cxovrebebze da warmoSobaze. igi SeiZleba sulac ar axdens STabeWdilebas, magram Sen maTs msaxurebas unda afasebde. maTi gamocdilebaa yvelaze ufro Rirebuli. dae maTma magaliTma aRmafrena mogces, dae man gaiZulos msgavsi Zalisxmeva gamoiyeno. magram Tu mxolod wyaroTa ZebniT xar dakavebuli, maSin sasicocxlo mniSvnelobis arss kargav. Tumca, raki kiTxva dagebada, gipasuxeb. viasa daibada meTevzeTa Soris, Sankara sunakas modgmidan iyo; agastia qoTanSi daibada, viSvamitra qSatria iyo, suta meoTxe kastaSi daibada. davamateb aseve, rom maT Soris, vinc zneobroibebs da mniSvnelovan Tvisebebs flobda, vinc mudam moralur miTiTebebs asrulebda Tavisi jaThisTvis, vinc yvelafers ganudga da dabadebis, sikvdilisa da materialur RirebulebaTa iluziis borkilebisagan xsnis idealebis erTguli iyo, iyvnen iseTi adamianebi, rogoricaa sanjaia, satiakama da sxv.

Cemo kargo! TviTsrulyofa, viveka (gamWriaxi goneba), tapasi – ai is, ris daxmarebiTac adamiani umaRles mdgomareobas aRwevs. Tu oqros dabali xarisxis spilenZs davumatebT, Senadnobi ufro dabali Rirebulebis gaxdeba. rogorc sufTa oqro Senadnobi xdeba, Tu mas spilenZs davumatebT, aseve yovlismomcveli, virat-rupa, egos emorCileba, roca is masTan aris Sereuli am samsaraSi. virat-rupa jivaSi transformirdeba. maS ra unda gavakeToT imisaTvis, rom pirvelyofili oqros tatva davibrunoT? pirvelyofili mdgomareobis aRdgena mxolod im SemTxvevaSi SeiZleba, Tu tapass SevasrulebT da davicavT aRTqmas (vraThas), gavaprialebT da gavasufTavebT ra budhis. talaxSi gavlis Semdeg xom iban fexebs? aseve gonebac unda iwmindebodes mibmulobebis WuWyisgan. mxolod jnianas SeuZlia dawvas mibmulobaTa Tesli ise, rom man kvlav aRmoceneba ver SeZlos. amrigad, adamiani advilad aRwevs gaTavisuflebas, Tu igi jnianas ganZs flobs.

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Tavi 15

aStanga iogaS. uxucesebi amboben, rom imisaTvis, rom adamians

hqondes bedniereba dabadebasa da sikvdils gaeqces, Zalian mniSvnelovania ioga. ra aris es ioga, razedac isini laparakoben?

p. `ioga SastraSi~ naTqvamia, rom garkveuli asanebis gakeTebaa saWiro imisaTvis, rom Tavi daaRwioT saganTa marad gafarToebad wres, romlebic gonebas aRelvebs, da gawmindoT igi, agreTve rwmenaSi rom gamyardeT, codna ganamtkicoT da aswioT kundalini SaqTi, romelic adamianSia dafaruli.

S. amboben, rom iogaSi aris ramdenime angi, anu safexuri. ramdenia da ra hqvia maT?

p. isini sul rvaa, aSta: iama, niiama, asana, pranaiama, pratiahara, dharana, dhiana, samadhi.

S. mukTis rom mivaRwioT, sakmarisia romelime maTganis praqtikaSi gamoyeneba Tu aucilebelia yvela maTganSi srulyofas mivaRwioT?

p. o, mukTis daeuflebas SeZleb, Tuki pirvel ors miaRwev, iamas da niiamas. imitom rom mxolod maTze dgas mTeli samyaro, mxolod iamaze da niiamaze.

S. rodesac iogaze vlaparakobT, vgulisxmobT Tu ara amaSi mxolod aStanga-iogas Tu arsebobs iogas sxva saxeobebic?

p. sul iogas oTxi saxeoba arsebobs.S. ra hqvia maT?p. Cveulebriv maT uwodeben mantra-iogas, raja-iogas, laia-

iogas (`Serwymis~ iogas) da haTha-iogas.S. aqvs Tu ara, Tavis mxriv, iogas am oTx saxeobas angebi,

anu safexurebi?p. ra suleli xar! gana milionobiT adamianisTvis ori Tvali

mxedvelobis organos ar warmoadgens? aseTive saxiT iogas yvela saxeobisTvisac iama da niiama ori Tvalia, maT gareSe raimes danaxva SeuZlebelia. gonebis siwminde nebismieri iogasTvis arsebiTia. da amitom iama da niiama aucilebelia.

S. ras gulisxmob iamaSi da niiamaSi? aqvT Tu ara maT safexurebi, angebi, anu damaxasiaTebeli niSnebi, romelTa daxmarebiTac maTi gansazRvra SeiZleba?

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p. ra Tqma unda. yovel maTgans aTi safexuri aqvs. mxolod maSin iqnebi gaTavisuflebuli, rodesac maT kargad SeiTviseb.

S. momiTxre iamas aTi safexuris Sesaxeb.p. ahimsa (araZaladoba), satia (simarTle), asteiia (sxvisis

aramiTviseba), brahmaCaria (ubiwoeba), daiia (TanagrZnoba), ajarva (TanagrZnobeloba), qSama (zneobrioba), dhriti (medegoba), miThahara (SezRudva WamaSi), SauCa (siwminde) – ai iamas aTi mdgeneli.

S. SeiZleba Sevityo niiamas aTi safexuri?p. tapasi (asketizmi), santoSa (kmayofileba), astikiabudhi

(RmerTis rwmena), dana (qvelmoqmedeba), iSvara-puja (locvebi, RvTismsaxurebebi), vedantavakia-Sravana (vedebis mosmena), laja (SiSi cudi qcevebis mimarT), maThi (religiuroba), japa (RmerTis saxelis xseneba), vraTha (aRTqmebis dacva) – ai niiamas aTi safexuri. es aris mokSas saxlis safuZveli; yvela iogma kargad unda SeiTvisos rogorc iama, aseve niiama.

S. iogaSi agreTve Sedis asanebi. ra daniSnuleba aqvT maT?p. isini Zalian exmarebian atmajnianebs (TviTSecnebisken

miswrafebulT) da ioginebs.S. albaT asanebic sxvadasxva arsebobs, xom asea?p. diax, isini Zalian bevria. magram ZiriTadia sidhasana

(`srulyofili poza~ - naxevrad lotosi), budhapadmasana (lotosis poza), sarvangasana (mxrebze dgomi). garda amisa, arsebobs Semdegi tipis asanebi: maiiura (farSavangis poza) da paSimontasana (`welis gawelva~: gaSlili fexebiT mjdomma moeWideT TiTebis wverebs; Tavi muxlebs miabjineT) da a.S.

S. ra sargebloba moaqvs asanebs?p. isini sxeuls mdgradobas matebs, gonebas ki – didi xniT

koncentrirebis unars.S. svami! axla pranaiamas Sesaxeb momiyevi. pranaiamas

ramdeni saxeoba arsebobs?p. pranaiamas mravali saxeoba arsebobs, magram amJamad

maTi umravlesobis praqtikaSi gamoyeneba SeuZlebelia. saWiroa mxolod imaTi arCeva, romlebic dhianas (meditaciis) SeswavlaSi exmareba adamians. es aris laghupranaiama, anu sunTqvis kontrolis gamartivebuli sistema.

S. gamartivebuli sistema? ra sargebloba moaqvs mas?

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p. rogorc liToni iwmindeba cecxliT tigelSi, aseve karmis widi nadgurdeba pranaiamas daxmarebiT da goneba gaWuWyianebisgan iwmindeba. sxeulis gawmendac da gonebis gawmendac miiRweva pranaiamas daxmarebiT, anu sxeulic da ganebac sufTa xdeba. arsebobs praianamas ori tipi – mantriT da mantris gareSe. pranaiama mantris gareSe yvelaze ufro kargad zemoqmedebs sxeulze, xolo pranaiama mantriT ki zemoqmedebs sxeulzec da gonebazec.

S. svami! rogor unda gamoviyenoT pranaiama praqtikaSi? p. ori wami grZeldeba puraka (CasunTqva), oTxi wami

grZeldeba reCaka (amosunTqva), rva wami grZeldeba kumbaka (sunTqvis Sekaveba). ase unda imuSaoT pranaiamaze sami Tvis ganmavlobaSi. amis Semdeg purakas, reCakas da kumbakas xangrZlivoba SeiZleba gaaormagoT. eqvsi Tvis mudmivi praqtikis Semdeg grZnobebis aqtivoba daiklebs. Tu pranaiamaze rwmeniT da gulwrfelad imuSavebT, maSin igi gonebis mRelvarebas daawynarebs; winaaRmdeg SemTxvevaSi igi ubralo fizikur varjiSad iqceva, romelsac mxolod fizikuri janmrTeloba moaqvs. sufTa sakvebi, brahmaCaria, ganmartoebiT cxovreba, metyvelebis kontroli – am pirobebis mkacrad dacvac aucilebelia.

S. svami! Semdeg punqtad Sen axsene pratiahara (obieqtebisgan grZnobebis moSoreba). pratiaharas ramdeni meTodi arsebobs?

p. sami: sakara (formiT), nirakara (formis gareSe) da atmabhava (WeSmarit `me~-ze koncentraciiT) mizanze damokidebulebiT, ris gulisTvisac grZnobebi kontrolze ahyavT da goneba koncentrirdeba. Tu es keTdeba saguna upasanasTvis (RmerTis formis TayvaniscemisTvis, an xmaze, Suqze da a.S. yuradrebis mokrebisTvis), maSin es aris sakara; Tu es keTdeba nirguna upasanasTvis (uformos TayvaniscemisTvis), maSin es aris nirakara, Tu es keTdeba satiam-jnianam-anantam paramatmasTvis (umaRlesi `me~-sTvis – WeSmaritebis-codnis-maradisobisTvis), maSin es aris atmabhava.

S. dharana (koncentracia)? svami! ra igulisxmeba amaSi? dharanas ramdeni saxeoba arsebobs?

p. Cemo kargo, dharana mxolod erTia. brZeni mudam Tavis iSta-devatas cnobierebaSi an brahmanis cnobierebaSi, iseve myarad imyofeba, rogorc dedamiwa mTas iWers. es aris dharana.

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S. maxsovs, rom Semdegi safexuri aris dhiana. igi albaT mravali saxeobisaa.

p. ara, ara. isic mxolod erTia. imisgan damoukideblad, aqvs mas forma Tu ara, Tu igi erT obieqtzea mimarTuli da gadaxrebi ar aqvs, es uflebas iZleva vuwodoT mas dhiana.

S. ukanasknelia samadhi. ra igulisxmeba amaSi?p. samadhi niSnavs koncentracias gonebisa, romelic

Tavisufalia yvela survilisgan da impulsisgan, RmerTze an adamianis WeSmarit arsze. es aris mdgomareoba, rodesac adamianSi misi WeSmariti buneba vlindeba. samadhi aris roca adamiani orobiTobisganaa Tavisufali. gonebas ar aRelvebs gancdis orobiToba; igi anaTebs rogorc ali oTaxSi, sadac ar aris qari. es aris niS-Cala, moZraobis arqona, uZraoba.

S. svami! amixseni, Tu SeiZleba, magaliTebze, rogor moqmedebs gonebis es saxe?

p. Cemo kargo! rodesac ginda nemsis yunwSi Zafi gauyaro, Sen unda am samuSaoze yuradReba mokribo, Zafi sworad unda daiWiro da wertilSi moaxvedro, xom asea? amis msgavsad, rom daimsaxuro RmerTis wyaloba, romelic yvelaferze ufro faqizia, rac ki arsebobs, aucilebelia Tvalebisa da grZnobebis koncentrireba moaxdino Sesabamis procesze da goneba daamSvido.

sarCeviTavi 1sxeuli da indriebi (grZnobaTa organoebi) ------------------- 4Tavi2ToTxmeti loka (samyaro) -------------------------------------------------

8Tavi 3sami aSrama (cxovrebis stadia) ---------------------------------------

10Tavi 4mokSa da karma (gaTavisufleba da moqmedeba) ----------------

14Tavi 5vidia da bhaqTi (codna da erTguleba) ----------------------------16Tavi 6

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dabrkolebebi gaTavisuflebis gzaze ----------------------------- 19Tavi 7panCakoSa (xuTi garsi) -----------------------------------------------------

22 Tavi 8ioga da mokSa (ioga da gaTavisufleba) ------------------------- 25Tavi 9jniana da ioga (sibrZne da ioga) ----------------------------------- 27Tavi 10brahmavidia (RvTaebrivi codna) da qalebi ----------------------30Tavi 11aSramebi da varnebi (cxovrebis stadiebi dasazogadoebis wodebebi) ---------------------------------------------------

33Tavi 12Sastrebi da saniasa (wminda werilebida gandegiloba)

-----------------------------------------------------------------36Tavi 13mantra da japa (wminda formulebi da locvebi) ------------39Tavi 14tapasi (askeza)

--------------------------------------------------------------------42Tavi 15aStanga ioga (rvasafexuriani ioga) ---------------------------------47