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Al-Jazeera interview with Dr. Aymen Al-Zawahiri in 1998

This is a transcript of the interview of Al-Jazeera with Dr. Aymen Al-Zawahiri that was conducted in December 1998 during the rule of the

Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan with the former Al-Jazeera bureau chief in

Pakistan, Jamal Ismail. The interview was conducted in a time when there

was a crisis in the QatariEgyptian relations, but after the relations returned

to normalcy, the administration of Al-Jazeera refused to broadcast it. The

Arabic transcript was published in the book of Jamal Ismail Bin Laden, Al-

Jazeera and me, where he criticized the double standards of the Al-Jazeera

channel. Also Al-Jihad Group has published an audio version of the

interview.

***

Jamal Ismail: Dr. Aymen Al-Zawahiri now you head the Egyptian Al-Jihad

Group, first give us a profile about yourself. Who is Dr. Aymen Al-

Zawahiri?

Aymen Al-Zawahiri: .

Aymen Al-Zawahiri was born in 1951 in the province of Al-Giza in Egypt.

My father is Dr. Mohammed Rabie Al-Zawahiri used to work a science

professor in the Ain Shams University. Im from a family who most its

members are from Ulema of Al-Azhar. Our great grandfather is Sheikh

Mohammed Al-Hassan Al-Zawahiri, was the Sheikh of Al-Azhar in the

thirties. My mother belongs to the family of Azzam, and its a family from a

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famous Arabian tribe that migrated to Egypt. My grandfather from my

mother side is Dr. Abdurrahman Azzam, the well known scholar and writer,

who was the first to translate the poetry of Mohammed Iqbal to the Arabic

language. I was raised in that atmosphere, I had my civil education until

1968 after Al-Naksa (Six Days war), then I entered the faculty of medicineand graduated in 1974. I got my Master degree in surgery in 1978. During

that time the Egyptian university was teeming with events, after the October

(1973) war and the Islamic groups in Egypt were established in it. After that

I applied to the doctoral studies, but the events didnt give me time to finish

it since I was forced to leave the country. I was arrested in 1981 and stayed

in prison for three years, where I know the real face of the regime. After that

I entered the famous Al-Jihad case in 8718 and the prosecution demanded

my execution, but Allah Subhanah wa Taala determined that I be ruled withonly three years in prison. After that I got out from prison, and then I left

Egypt after three months somehow. After that I toured in different countries

until I reached Pakistan and there I worked with the Afghan Mujahidin in

surgical work to help the Afghan Mujahidin medically. And I had went to

Pakistan before in 1980/81 where I worked as a doctor and surgeon with the

mujahidin and since then, I have been roaming through the countries for the

jihad cause in Egypt and the Islamic World.

J.I: Regarding the Egyptian Islamic Jihad Group, when was it established,what are its goals and what from these goals have been achieved so far?

A. Z: Islamic Jihad Group was established around 1966. We were a group of

students in high school. We began to establish groups in the wake of the

regime strike to the Ikwan (Muslim Brotherhood) in 1965. We began to

know about Islamic movement and what happened to it. We reached to a

conclusion that this Egyptian regime is an anti-Islamic regime and there will

be no good from it, since it led to the occurrence of historical disasters to the

land, on Egypt in particular and the Arabs in general. This regime have

received this country and its borders was from southern Sudan to the

Mediterranean Sea, and in 1967 half the country was occupied and its army

was destroyed in Yemen. So we reached to a conclusion that there is no way

to rescue except with resisting this regime and return to Islam. Since then we

are working to these principles, which is that this regime in Egypt should be

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changed, because there is no way but to change this regime through force

after it reached to this level of corruption and wasting the country. The

activity remained so until 1981 and what happened in them of big events of

rounding up of the politicians in general and the Islamic stream in particular

in September 1981 and then what followed after that from the assassinationof Sadat and the events of Upper Egypt, which was the Islamic Intifada in

1981 and it was followed with a detention campaign, we were touched by

these detentions. This is a summary of the events until the death of Sadat,

who with his assassination erupted the cause of jihad in Egypt, and the cause

of resisting the Jews in Egypt erupted because Khalid Al-Islambouli

rahimahullah, when asked why did he kill Sadat? His reply was clear and

frank: because he was an agent for the Jews in Egypt. Because he abused the

Muslim Ulema in Egypt. May Allah reward Khalid Al-Islambouli and hisbrothers Mohammed Abdulsalam, Atta Tayil and Abdulhamid Abdulsalam,

they have erupted the cause of jihad in Egypt. This jihad that clashed with

the Jews and their agents in Egypt and the defenders of the Jews in Egypt,

which is the ruling secular military regime in Egypt. The events and history

have proved that the only power that is capable of stopping this regime and

resisting the Zionist tide in Egypt is the Islamic power, so with the

assassination of Anwar Sadat and the events of Upper Egypt the cause of

resisting the Jews in Egypt erupted. And it was clear Image to the

eyewitness, on one side the treachery of the Egyptian regime tot the Jews

and Americans and on the other side the Islamic movement.

Of course, since then the events are erupting in Egypt such as the revival of

the Al-Jihad case and many of the Islamic causes in Egypt ended with the

arrest of its members and their entrance to prison and staying there for a long

period, but from 1981 and the events are renewing, reviving and erupting in

Egypt. The Islamic forces reflect the Egyptian street, which is the only

power in Egypt. And the Egyptian regime on the other side. The Islamicforces hold what no other political power has, they have 60000 detainees,

108 among them are ruled with the capital punishment in military courts,

until now about 88 of them were executed, but there are many cases of

murder, enforced disappearance, death under torture, extended provisions

and violating the honor of women. There is no political organization or

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stream in Egypt that has this long breath, despite that the Islamic forces in

Egypt is still capable of combating the regime and America so far considers

its most demonized enemies. From 1981 to date and the Islamic cause is

erupting in Egypt. I consider the events of 1981, especially what was done

by Khalid Al-Islambouli and his brothers rahimahumullah as an explosion tothe confrontation with the Jews, and revival of the jihad cause against the

Jews and the Americans. So this cause emerged among the Muslim youth

now and it became an everyday life issue in Egypt.

After we left Egypt and arrived in Afghanistan. There was an opportunity in

the Afghan jihad that gave another push to the jihad and Islamic work in the

Arab world. In Afghanistan we gained organizational, political and military

experience that we couldnt gain in any other country. This was an open

Jihadi arena, where the Moslem youth who were eager to jihad from all over

the Islamic World and practiced jihad, and with the participation of these

youth the super power that controlled huge areas of the world and which was

considered the strongest ground force in the world fell. In the participation

of those youth they saw this live experience by themselves and their own

eyes, and saw how the super power fell and that there is no super power, so

this youth came out from Afghanistan and were full of hope in confronting

the powers that were called Super and it fell from his mind the so called of

the super powers, and was aware of the frailty of these super powers becausehe confronted it by himself in the field. The stage of the Afghanistan is a

very rich stage, which we benefited it from very much in Egypt and it began

to escalate abruptly, and the regime was forced to show its ugly, grim face

and true image. So it began campaigns of detentions, torture and oppression.

This is attested by human rights organizations and the records of the U.S.

Department of State, even the officials of the regime themselves

acknowledge that. So the regime was forced to take the policy of severe

oppression and repression against them, against the Islamic forces that refusethe treachery towards America and Israel and demand to return to Islam and

the Islamic identity of the Ummah, as the only savior to the Ummah from

the state of debasement and humiliation that it has reached. After that, when

we were forced to leave to Pakistan after the campaigns of detention against

the Arab youth who did jihad in Afghanistan, we kept these experiences and

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strong connections and practiced in Egypt the Dawah, Jihadi and political

action. The result of these relations is that the mujahid youth formed a

political and ideological awareness that this Ummah is being fought because

its a Muslim Ummah. There is a new crusade that wants this Ummah, and

wants its wealth and land, and wants to obliterate the political will andideological uniqueness of this Ummah. The Muslim youth came out with the

political awareness that the biggest enemy that is causing all these scourges

and disasters is the Jewish Crusader alliance, and that it biggest criminals

are present in the White House and Israel, because they are the ones who are

moving the Egyptian regime, and they are moving the other Arab regimes to

strike Islamic movement. This awareness led to many connections,

consulting and joint work with the brothers and its fruit was the last stage

that we are going through now in the Jihad Group and many of the othermujahid groups and the groups that are working to restore the Islamic

identity to the Ummah, which is unity to resist this new crusade attack,

maybe the creation of the International Islamic Front for Jihad Against Jews

and Crusaders will be an organization that we want from it to emphasis this

soul that was an awareness, understanding and spirit that goes through this

Ummah, and it becomes administrative and organizational templates that

organize this Islamic awakening. This is in brief a summary about Al-Jihad

Group and what it has achieved until now.

J.I: You spoke about the beginning of the Jihadi awareness in Egypt, and

that it was to resist the Jews entrance to Egypt but until now Al-Jihad Group

in Egypt and in the framework of its armed action we didnt see or rarely we

would hear from it about operations against the Jews, but rather it operations

were limited against the Egyptian regime or some figures and officers in the

police service or the Egyptian government. Isnt that considered

undermining of the State of that could practice one day its role in the

resistance of normalization with the Jews or resisting the Jewish tide inEgypt?

A. Z: This is conclusion isnt based on a correct introduction. The Egyptian

regime cannot resist the Jews or the Americans. The Egyptian regime works

for the interest of the Jews and Americans. When we strike the regime in

Egypt we strike it because its a regime that prevents the Islamic Sharia. Its

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sells the country to Israel and the Americans. Its a regime that began the

peace agreements with Israel. Its the regime that ended the state of war

between Egypt and Israel. Its the first Arab regime that opened an Israeli

embassy in Cairo. It is the one which entered to Egypt the American bases.

It is the regime that conducting the normalization (with Israel) in Egypt andwants from the Egyptian people to forget something called Palestine. So

with this the Egyptian regime is a strong and major tool in the hand of Israel

to strike the strongest Arab power, which is Egypt that can hold in the face

of Israel. And when we are resisting the regime, we were resisting it in that

meaning and we still resist it in that meaning. And we increased in our

cooperation with our brothers in the other groups. Thats regarding the

second half of the question, but the first half which is why we didnt see for

you military operations against the Jews in Egypt: we sought for operationsagainst the Jews but the will of Allah Subhanah wa Taala determined that it

werent accomplished, and the most famous of them is the Khan Al-Khalili

case which 100 brothers were accused in it and three of them have been

executed recently. This operation was primarily against the Israeli tourists in

Egypt but regime doesnt dare to mention that in its statements. So this

awareness, which is that jihad in Egypt should directed against the regime

and against America and the Israel, is a stable awareness and a proof for that

is that we entered and participated in the Islamic InternationalFront against

the Crusaders and the Jews, so if we didnt have that awareness we

wouldnt have participated in that front.

J.I: Regarding the operations against the foreign tourists in Egypt: there were

several military operations against foreign tourists in Egypt, especially the

incident at Luxor. There were several statements that the Al-Jihad Group

was behind such operations. Dont you see that such operations affect one

way or another on the general income for the Egyptian ordinary people and

the economy of the country and undermine the foundations of a State thattens of millions of the Egyptian people are benefiting from?

A. Z: First, there is a configurable objection on the question. We as a group

didnt attack the foreigntourists in Egypt. And there is a thematic section in

the question, which is what is practiced by the members of the Islamic

Groups in Egypt. In fact, you in the media hear what is published from one

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side, which is the government and its point of view. Regarding the Islamic

point of view, even if we didnt participate in these operations but we totally

understand, which is that the youth consider the presence of the foreign

tourists in the Egypt is an assault on the Muslims in Egypt. Because the

Jewish, American and French tourist and foreigners in general after theystroke Iraq, bombardment the Muslims in Lebanon, and broke the legs and

hands of the children in occupied Palestine, they make Egypt a nightclub or

resort and comes to spend his time in it. We say to him or the youth say to

him that our country isnt a country for enjoying or picnicking, especially

your likes and the youth declared repeatedly that we dont want this kind of

tourists in Egypt. We dont want tourist with low morals in Egypt. We dont

want tourists who assault us repeatedly and after they finish their assault,

they come to picnic and enjoy in Egypt.

J.I: Do you mean that most of the tourists are from the Western forces,

especially the Americans, that bomb Iraq and other Islamic countries?

A. Z: No... in General the tourists in Egypt are from the states that supported

the establishment of Israel, most of the Western nations from the beginning

these nations recognize, support and aid Israel, and support the American

policies against Iraq, when hundreds of the Iraqi people were killed in the

global American assault. Forces from these nations participated in thealliance against our Ummah. There is an enmity from the people in Egypt

towards these nations that participated in the assault against our Ummah.

The youth said to these tourists dont come to our land because to conducted

an assault against our lands, and because you practice morals and behaviors

that we as Muslims dont except to be practiced among us and against

Egypt. Dont come to us because to aid the economy of the government that

is working for the interest of Israel. This aid doesnt go to the Egyptian

citizen, but rather to the high officials and the state of corruption in Egypt.

Because of you there is state of prostitution, corruption and gambling

established in Egypt. This state that sucks the blood of the Muslims and the

weak ones and forces them to immorality because of the poverty that they

live in. We dont want all this money. The youth in Egypt warned once,

twice, thrice and fourth. Now the battle is between the Islamic forces and the

regime that is allied Israel and America in Egypt. We consider the regime

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illegitimate and the visas that it gives to the tourists illegitimate. Despite of

that those tourists take the visas from the regime that the Muslim youth

consider illegitimate. John Major said that he supports the regime in Egypt

against the Islamic Groups, so the tourist that comes to Egypt is a combatant

and is not a tourist. He is a tourist that supports the regime, recognizes itslegitimacy and pays money to strengthen it. Any country in the world

considers that it has the right to shoot who enters through the borders

illegally. So those youth from this point committed these operations. We

even if we didnt conduct these operations, but we understand the moti ves

totally. Add to that, what is the youth suffering from? This youth is suffering

from a terror, oppression and torture that Egypt never saw in its history. It

has been acknowledged by the Egyptian courts and forensic and it has been

acknowledged by the Egyptian journalists, and a person like Adil Hamoda inRose Al-Youssef says that in Egypt there are 30,000 detainee and tens of

torture operations. Those youth who are subjugated to this have to stop the

torture against their brothers. What happened in Luxor and wasnt published

or referred to in the media is that the youth said: We conducted an operation

to revenge our brothers who died under torture in Egypt. And they were

intending that it be a hostage operation to liberate their brothers in the

Egyptian prisons and to save Dr. Omar Abdurrahman may Allah free him

from captivity. What happened is those brothers who kidnapped the tourists

didnt fire at them; it was the Egyptian regime that didnt care about the

tourists and the brothers, so it fired at the tourists and killed them. The same

thing that happened during the operation of liberating the kidnapped plane in

Cyprus. The Egyptian Special Forces were the ones who stormed the plane

and killed the passengers, and then the regime said that the Palestinians were

the ones who killed the passengers. We understand these motives and accuse

the regime of killing these tourists.

J.I: You mentioned in the beginning to the declaration of the establishmentof the International Islamic Front for Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders, but

until now there is very little that is known about this Front, it principles,

what it wants and what has it achieved so far. Can you give a summary

about the front and its goals?

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A. Z: The International Islamic Front has its Charter. This Charter has

permanent features, which urges the Moslem Ummah to do jihad to repel the

American and Jewish aggression against it, which plunders the riches of the

Ummah and occupies its land. This aggression that occupied its land and its

most holy land, Al-Quds, Grand Mosque in Mecca, and Grand Mosque inMedina. This Front works to implement the Sharia of Allah Subhanah wa

Taala on His land and the Front seeks to mobilize all the Islamic forces to

save the Islamic sanctities that are lost. This is the main goal of the Front

and its main work and the Front is eager to unite the Ummah and incite it to

this main goal.

J.I: What has the front achieved so far?

A. Z: I cannot say what the Front has achieved so far and during its briefperiod of life. But I can say that the Front has a sweeping popular acceptance

and wide support, and a proof of this are the demonstrations that happened

in Pakistan to support it. Especially when there were rumors about the arrest

of the sheikh Osama bin Laden, wide demonstrations erupted in Pakistan

and demonstrations erupted in many Islamic countries when Afghanistan

was bombed. And among the targets that were bombed locations allegedly

that the Arab brothers were present there who were affiliated to the Front.

This sweeping popular sympathy is a result of fruitful work that has beendone by the Front to unite the Ummah and for a huge goal like that nine

months or a year isnt a long period.

J.I: Recently, there was an AmericanBritish attack on Iraq, but there was a

notice that there was an absence of any strong response to the missile and air

bombardment on Iraq. Also there wasnt any response from the International

Islamic Front to this bombardment.

A. Z: I will be responding now, if my brothers in the Front allow me to

speak in its name. (Here Dr. Aymen Al-Zawahiri from sheikh Osama bin

Laden to speak about the Front since sheikh Osama was considered its

official spokesman and he was sitting with us when we conducted the

interview) this aggression against Iraq cannot be repelled with slogans or

demonstrations or shouts, it can only be repelled to treat America and Israel

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in the same way it treats the Arabs and Moslems. America killed civilians,

children and women, in Iraq. Israel killed civilians in Qana, Sabra and

Shatila, Deir Yassin and Bahar Al-Baqar school. America is starving the

Iraqi people and killing the children, plundering our money and occupying

our land. There is no way but to treat it in the same way. Those people donthave any morals. Those people stroke the civilians in Hiroshima and

Nagasaki after Japan declared its surrender. Those people only know the

logic of force. The response of the Islamic Front is to call the Ummah to

stand with it with the same force to repel the aggression. The Front have

issued a new statement which is a call to all who can carry weapons or can

do anything against America to stand with the Front. This is a call to all the

Muslims and the Islamic movements from the Islamic International Front

against the Crusaders and the Jews, to unite and resist this aggression.

J.I: Last summer you came under the American missile strikes in Khost and

the areas close to it. You and sheikh Osama bin Laden were accused of

conducting attacks against American interests in the world. After the

American British attack against Iraq. Do you expect an air or missile

attack on the Taliban regions or the places where you are located?

A. Z: We expect an attack at any moment. We expect to be killed at any

moment. I personally believe that we lived too much. We want to die for thesake of Allah. The aggression that happened against the camps in

Afghanistan wasnt because of a direct reason to Nairobi and Dar es Salaam,

the reason is that the Front said Haram to what America considers Haram,

which is kill the Americans as they kill you. So America became crazy

and considered the Front conducted what America considers a crime. That is

why it stroke the camps before any conviction or formal investigation was

issued from the American administration about the two events, because there

has been a leaking to the American intelligence that there is a meeting in

Khost, as there was a leaking about false news about the presence of

chemical weapons in Khartoum. So it stroke quickly and we expect that

there wont be any result for the investigation so that America can kill those

participating in the Front. We expect this will be repeated without proof or

excuse or any reason and we know this matter before the events of Nairobi

and Dar es Salaam and that there is an American plot related to the

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assassination and killing. We will follow it and welcome it and we say that

the Americans entered a war and the Americans are engaged in that. They

fought before in Korea and in Vietnam, but in this decade they are engaged

with the Moslems. And for the Americans to be engaged with the Moslems

they will know how will we fight? And how will we be martyred?

J.I: There is a talk about the presence of relations between the Egyptian Al-

Jihad Group with the governments of Iran, Iraq and Sudan. What is your true

stance from these governments and your relations with it, if there was any

relation?

A. Z: Al-Jihad Group is a group of mujahidin that are chased all over the

world and I dont think that any government other than the government of

Afghanistan will welcome us, and the Taliban have shown stances that wehavent seen before in the modern history. Our relation with Iran and Iraq or

other are all illusions. But the truth is that the Egyptian government has a

clear treacherous relation with America and Israel. The facts is that in Egypt

there are American bases, the West Cairo airport, the Qina airport, there are

Egyptian facilities in all the Egyptian airports and sea ports for the American

forces. The B52 warplanes went out from Egypt and stroke Iraq. There is an

Israeli embassy in Cairo and an FBI and CIA office in Cairo. There are

60000 detainees in Egypt because of their Islamic trend and refusal to Israel.These are the facts and because of this the Egyptian security agencies seek to

kidnap people from Croatia, Albania and Thailand, and send them to Egypt.

These are the facts, but regarding accusing us of having relations with other

governments, these are illusions, or as they say she claims that I'm sick when

she's the one with chest pains. The traitors are accusing others with

treachery. They are the real traitors who are working with America and

Israel, who have gathered the people in Sharm El Sheikh to resist the

Moslem youth who us resisting Israel. These are the facts.

J.I: The Egyptian government insists on accusing Sudan of giving shelter to

the centers to the Egyptian Islamic groups and facilitate its training inside

the Sudanese territory and then facilitating their crossing and smuggling to

Egypt.

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A. Z: Brother, this Egyptian government wont stop trying to draw attention

away from the real problem, which is resembled in the presence of a struggle

between the popular forces and especially by the Islamic forces and the

regime, this is the real problem. And the government puts pressure on any

side that it thinks that it can help in that. But is putting pressure on Sudanand expelling sheikh Osama bin Laden from it stopped the operations from

Egypt? Or after putting pressure on Sudan were the detainees released, the

Emergency Law canceled and stopped the executions in Egypt? The case is

a full case, which is the treachery of the Egyptian regime to the Americans

and its fight to Islam. This is the problem.

J.I: This will lead us to speak about the internal situation in Egypt. The

regime says that it began to practice freedoms and gave freedom to the

opposition and allowed for the presence opposition parties and opposition

newspapers, while you insist to practice what it calls violence and you

describe the armed Jihadi action. First, what is the real situation in Egypt?

How does the Islamic streams live in Egypt? Are there mediations between

the government and the Islamic groups in Egypt? And what is your stance

from these mediations?

A. Z: First, regarding the first half of the question there is a big prison called

Egypt, there are 60000 detainee, and interior minister admitted of thepresence of tens of thousands of detainees. Finally they released 700

repentant, and they said we released 5000. So how many didnt repent if

only 5000 repented?

J.I: Excuse me, what is the concept of repentance that the government is

speaking about?

A. Z: According to the state, the concept of repentance is that the detainee

says that I no longer believe in violence and armed action. And those who

the state said that they are from the repentant, due to the policy of arbitrary

arrest the state arrests anyone who has relation and doesnt have a relation,

then they come to those poor ones who have no relation to the events, and

say to them we will release you if you said we have repented and no longer

believe in violence. Those didnt practice anything of what the state calls

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violence to repent from it, in fact this is a play that the state has been

doing from some time. Or why dont they release people whom the judiciary

have ruled to them with innocence. There are people who spent 15 years in

the prisons of Egypt and are still under detention despite the end of their

sentence. There are sentences for wholesale release but there are people whoare still detained for ten years in Egypt without any charge brought against

them. Let them release those people if really there is freedom in Egypt and

respect to the law that they put. The judiciary in Egypt condemned the

government several times in the case 264/18 that is called the Grand Al-

Jihad case. The government has been condemned and the judge said:

Egypt doesnt have the Islamic Sharia and there is torture that caused

permanent disabilities. There is a corruption that is spread in the media and

press that follow the Egyptian government. The persistent of the republic asthe military ruler signed on this and approved by himself on a sentence that

condemned him of not implementing the Sharia and the spread of corruption

in Egypt. This is not our words, but its rather the words of the Amnesty

International and the Egyptian human rights organization.

The issue is why all this injustice is practiced. The government practices this

policy of protecting the Israeli expansion in Egypt and the region. Israel

realizes that Egypt which has a heavy population size is the obstacle on its

way so it has to suppress this power in any way. The government says that itrestored the freedoms. I challenge the Egyptian government now, a

challenge that the Egyptian government dont dare to answer. Let them end

the banned from travel lists, let them end the state of emergency, release the

detainees, allow the freedom of gatherings, the freedom of strikes, and

restore all the rights that they claim. And they will see how will the

sweeping popular tide sweep them? The Egyptian government dont dare to

stop the suppression measures, because the day the government stops this

will be the day of eliminating this government. I demand channel Al-Jazeerato transfer this challenge to the Egyptian government. I challenge them to

leave the freedoms in Egypt and they will see themselves that the result of

this freedom is eliminating this puppet regime in Egypt because of the

Jewish policy in the region.

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Regarding the mediations, we Alhamdulillah didnt receive any mediations

and we dont have any mediations and dont believe in any mediations with

the Egyptians regime. The only solution with this regime is that it leaves to

America which he works for its interest.

J.I: There are two kinds of judiciary now in Egypt: the public cases which

falls within the jurisdiction of the civil judiciary that everyone speaks about

its partial or total integrity. But there are cases that are related to all the

Islamic groups, which are transferred to the military judiciary which doesnt

have any appeal or anything. How do you explain this discrimination in

treatment against the Islamic groups and the double standards before these

groups?

A. Z: This is the American Jewish policy in Egypt. There are the highcriminal courts and there are the emergency high state security courts, these

courts rule with the criminal law, but its sentences cannot be appealed,

which means any sentence that are issued by it makes the persistent of the

republic the only one which has the right to amend or mitigating or transfer

it to another court. After that they werent satisfied by this because some

judges in these courts ruled against the wish of the government like the case

of assassinating Rifat Al-Mahjob, so they assigned special chambers for

terrorism in these courts to transfer the brothers to it and kept in it judgeslike Salahidin Bador who was recently shot in Egypt. They werent satisfied

with this and issued law 79/74 that is known as anti-terrorism Act, which

allows them to search homes and detain people without an order and

empowers the government to detain any person for six months without being

be charged. And they werent satisfied with this but rather they transferred

people to the military courts, which ruled to date on 108 persons with capital

punishment, within four years 88 of them were executed. Latest was the

sentence that was issued against our brothers and they executed because they

did an operation against the Jews or what was called Khan Al-Khalili case.

This is the Egyptian regime and this is the American policy.

J.I: The former interior minister Hassan Al-Alfi talked frequently about

penetration of the Egyptian intelligence or state security intelligence to the

Egyptian Islamic groups and this is what led to it failure in many operations

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in Egypt. Do you really feel some kind of penetration that he talks about

especially in the ranks of Al-Jihad Group and to what extent is this

penetration, if it existed?

A. Z: First, we are in a state of war with the government. This governmentcould be able to recruit a person who is far from us and claim that it

achieved a security penetration, but the one who failed in security and

dismissed from his job and insulted by the president of the republic on TV,

and told him not to speak is: Hassan Al-Alfi, and he said to him that what he

was doing is jesting, and he is the seventh interior minister to fail in resisting

the Islamic stream. Every interior minister comes and says that he will

eliminate terrorism, and in the end he is dismissed from his job without

achieving his goals. So the one who failed in his work and is really

penetrated is the interior ministry, and the proof on that is our presence and

operations, and a proof on that is that America keeps us in the terrorists list,

and we challenge the government to eliminate us. and we seek help from

Allah, then from our brothers, and they seek the help from America and

depend on tremendous armies and the American aid, And Allah has full

power and control over His Affairs, but most of men know not.

J.I: Your relation with the Egyptian and non-Egyptian Islamic groups in the

current situation. Why did the Islamic groups that believe in armed violencefail until now to agree on a strategy despite almost all of them share in the

determined goal?

A. Z: Our relation with the mujahid Islamic groups is a brotherly relation

and the relation of participating in the same battle. We repeat the call for all

the mujahid Islamic groups to unit before one goal, which is resisting this

alliance that consists of the regimes, America and Israel. We have to work

together to remove these regimes and not to give any legitimacy to these

regimes, and not to have a side battle between us, and that our battle shouldbe directed to these regimes.

This is our message to the Islamic groups. Regarding why the Islamic groups

didnt agree on a unified strategy, the presence of the International Islamic

Front with its charter and efforts is considered a major and first step on this

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path. That is why America considered this Front a clear challenge to it, and

considered who participated in it terrorists who should be captured, because

the Front said the truth that America fears to be spread between the people.

J.I: Your relation with sheikh Osama bin Laden and your concomitant withhim in Afghanistan. Do you consider that this relation through the Front

made you one organization or that the Egyptian Al-Jihad Group still keeps

its structure and independence from the International Islamic Front that is

led by the sheikh Osama bin Laden?

A. Z: First regardless of the details, our relations with sheikh Osama bin

Laden and the mujahidin brothers in Afghanistan is the relation of

participating in the jihad and fellowship in arms, and its an old relation and

martyrs have fallen from among us in the field of jihad. This is an oldrelation. The Front is a fruit of this relation, however, regarding sheikh

Osama bin Laden he moves much and we contact and visit him very much.

The purpose of creating the Front is to be a container of all the Islamic

groups to resist the Zionist attack, to unit in this Front to execute this

purpose and to be real and operational plans against America.

J.I: But will this require that these organizations not necessarily merge

within the framework of one organization?

A. Z: (A broad smile and a laugh from the depths) Dont try to take

everything in the first interview with you. This is a question that cannot be

answered in the first interview.

J.I: Some of the Islamic groups which believe and practice the armed

struggle (for example in Algeria) began to call to stopping the armed action

against the regimes and called for peaceful dialogue with these regimes. So

are there justifications for the Al-Jihad Group in Egypt to continue the

armed struggle in Egypt against the regime?

A. Z: This is a question that has two sections. The first section: is that these

experiences in Algeria and in Egypt proved the failure of the so called

political or democratic solution. We consider this method illegitimate.

What happened to the Front of Islamic Salvation in Algeria?. What

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happened to the Muslim Brotherhood group in Egypt, all of them entered

prison. Its only jihad and the only path is jihad. This is regarding the

political action. Regarding the second section: for us we have good tidings.

We increased our action against the regime and working for jihad against

America and Israel, and action outside Egypt. The government is chasing useverywhere and we are chasing it everywhere. Al-Gama'a Al-Islamiyya

attacked Hosni Mubarak in Addis Ababa. We are now increased our work to

resist America and Israel directly. So we see the popular response to us and

we, Alhamdulillah, for us the situation is auspicious, that promise us that

this path is what will lead us to it and all the other paths are unsuccessful.

J.I: Dr. Aymen Al-Zawahiri, Amir of the Egyptian Al-Jihad Group, what is

the message that you want to send to Egypt and the Islamic World through

action and your leadership of the Egyptian Al-Jihad Group?

A. Z: I want to send a message to my Muslim brothers everywhere as a

Muslim, so leave these titles and labels. We want to send a message to our

Muslim brothers everywhere. If we want to live in glory and people of

dignity and pride we should fight the new Crusade war against America and

Israel. This is our message to our brothers in the Arab and Islamic world and

Egypt that they be with us against our enemies Israel and America, with all

what we can. The solider and officer in the Egyptian army shouldnt use hisweapon against the Muslims, and should know that its dignity has been

smashed the day they were forced to evacuate Sinai and it was given to the

American forces to keep peace. The Muslim world should preserve the

independence of Al-Azhar, which was the fort of resistance in Egypt in the

face of tyranny and occupation, which due to the government control and

seizure of it became inviting the Israeli Chief Rabbi to visit Al-Azhar.

The Moslem student should be engaged in the elections of the students union

to spread the soul of resisting against America and Israel. The Muslim fatherand mother should teach their sons the Quran and the Hadith and be eager to

teach them that Palestine is a Moslem land that was occupied by the Jews,

and that all these agreements, treaties and conventions are false. They should

explain to them that America occupies Egypt now. And the that Mecca

Mosque is occupied and Medina is occupied and the petrol is plundered.

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They have to raise them on that, this is an obligation on every young man,

professional and syndicalistic in Egypt to stand in the face of America and

Israel.

Defeating America isnt hard. America was defeated in Vietnam andexpelled from Lebanon and from Somalia, so if we stood in front of it

sincerely it will end as the USSR have ended. Everything depends that we be

sincere in resisting.

J.I: Finally, we thank Dr. Aymen Al-Zawahiri, Amir of Al-Jihad Group in

Egypt for giving us this opportunity to interview him in the mountains of

Afghanistan to inform us on the situation in Egypt and the conditions of Al-

Jihad Group.

A. Z: I thank you and bear on you the responsibility of transferring of this

interview because we have (a bad) previous experiences with the media and

I bear Al-Jazeera channel this responsibility. I hope Al-Jazeera channel

succeeds in what others have failed.

J.I: InshaAllah we will be to your good opinion.